reversible errors. the only problem for the president in my view is not the outcome of the child even if he is convicted, i just cannot imagine that this could be upheld. the problem is just time. it will take time to get it to be reversed. the question is do you want to take a further risk to try to take down this case right now? i would caution the defence. you're winning in my view on the law hands down. i wouldn't go rolling the dice too much because you never know when you'll come up with snake eyes. >> martha: jonathan, thank you. so great to have you with us. as we watch all of this unfold. taught blanche is wrapping up for today is questions for michael cohen and we wait for the former president to come up. that is the story for now i'll see you back here tomorrow at 3:00. fox goes on after this. [ ♪♪ ]

>> thank you martha. as he indicated the jury has just been dismissed and now we wait for president trump this after michael cohen undergoes a grooming cross-examination and as you put it it was tough for the guy tuesday. this was super tough today. what will he have to neil: say about it? we know he wants to speak and will speak momentarily and we will take you there live when he does. welcome everyone i'm neil cavuto happy to have you. a lot of big news to tell you about including some records made and all of a sudden unmade. but first outside the courthouse today latest on what went down today. nate. >> reporter: hey neil the court is over for the day, at least the jury has been brought out. still dealing with a couple things we will talk about momentarily but the cross-examination of michael cohen will stretch into next week, at least monday. you mention an intense day in court at the end of court today. cohen acknowledged he never had a retainer agreement while working for former president donald trump which is important because that was stressed during

his direct examination. trump attorney taught blanche also accused him of lying under oath today. and claimed he told trump the stormy daniels deal was done through a phone call with the head of security but texts show instead cohen instead wanted to talk about harassing phone calls he received. cohen now says both conversations happened in the same phone call that lasted under 2 minutes. blanche also asked him about removing a blog post. somewhere keep it in 2011 about the election a between trump and daniels. cohen said the first time he heard trump complain about the story, trump said according to cohen, his family wasn't going to like that very much. that is important because prosecutors argued that trump later suppressed the daniels story to influence the 2016 presidential election trump denies ever having an affair with daniels. cohen is the prosecution's final witness. earlier today trump's lawyers asked him about the multiple times he lied under oath and

federal prosecutors. moments ago neil they talked about the nda daniels signed. cohen looked at it and admitted it's a legal contract. again the jury has walked out the courtroom but right now lawyers for both sides are talking about an expert witness that trump's team on stickle. they are going over the parameters of the possible questioning and it comes as there is speculation about possible testimony from bob castillo who cohen consulted with in 2018 before reaching a plea deal with federal prosecutors. coastal -- coastal testified yesterday and told fox this morning that collin is lying on the stand again. meal. >> neil: he's the expert witness in addition to possibly featuring costello? >> reporter: so, prior to his testimony on capitol hill, trump's attorneys had planned on calling an expert witness. we don't know the name of the

witness, it has not been released. so those plants have been a motion since before costello's testimony. it's possible that it is costello and that he was part of the plan all along. he did speak with the grand jury as part of the investigation so we will have to weight and sea. but it appears there are 2 separate people, again is not confirmed. >> neil: thank you for that nate. but that's not andy mccarthy former u.s. attorney. anti-, what did you make up-to-date? i was making a reference to the tuesday, blistering back-and-forth, you know, cross-examination of michael cole and. but this seemed to make that look like pattycake. how do you think it went? >> they had an embarrassment of riches to go after cohen in terms of his credibility. you have a guy who is a convicted perjurer who at federal judge a few weeks ago found that he'd committed

perjury the second time, either in testimony he just recently gift or if you can follow this, i know it's confusing but when he was pleading guilty to fraud and tax evasion. so by the judges account this is a perjurer who committed perjury about his front. so, you know, when it's that hard just to even explain it in a thumbnail sketch like that, you can imagine for taught blanche who is doing the questioning there is a lot of material there and he made as much use of it as you'd expect expect him to. i would just add neil to nate's report, prior to the beginning of the trial, the trump team wanted to call, they told the court they wanted to call an expert witness named brad smith used to be on the federal election commission and would give the jury accurate information about why

nondisclosure agreement payment or not federal campaign expenditures. -- are not. i would expect their fighting over that and the judges pushing back. bob costello would not be an expert witness, you would be a fact witness with respect to cohen. >> neil: let me ask you a bit about costello. he was michael cohen's first lawyer. essentially he spoke his mind and he is different with the way he was treated, this is him earlier. >> basically they only put in a small cherry pick group of females. are presented maybe 2 to 300 e-mails and text messages. i have been with me in chronological order. they put 2 or 3 into evidence p. i asked if they would put the rest into evidence and they said no. >> neil: if you are the prosecution fact you want to hear from that guy?

if you are the defence do you want to hear from that guy? >> based on what he said yesterday and while bob solow said today that what his testimony would be would not be beneficial to the prosecution. i believe he said that the prosecution did not include all of the e-mails because they would have hurt the prosecution's case. and he is being very clear in saying i asked them to put these e-mails and cow they tried to say something about hearsay, there's a exception to the hearsay rule so that didn't apply. he said to me it seemed like they were interested in having the whole truth laid out for the grand jury. so he told the grand jury please ask for more of my records, you will get the truth here and he said when that really hasn't happened and the district attorney continues to proceed with the case, is standing up and is speaking and telling his

side of the story and we will sea if he testifies for the defence in this case. but i don't believe the prosecution will call him, they haven't yet. they can't now. the defence would have to call him and the defence would call him if they feel they need that extra pack if they feel they need witnesses. and may determine after this long weekend, you know, the prosecution has improved their case and we will just rest. we will see. >> neil: let me pursue a bit about the strategy here. it seems obvious and respelling at out that cohen has this long history of lying. 1 after another pack perjuring himself. it's landed him in a heap of trouble yet this is the gentleman they are trying to prove the youth criminal conviction based on his work and it can't be relied on. so therein lies the rub right? >> that's exactly right meal.

relieve the basic decision is do you bring this case because if you decide to bring this case, he is an essential witness. it's not like heck you would ask yourself if there were like or 5 different ways to do this, can't we figure out a path to get to the end without having to rely on michael cole and? but they can't, he is an essential witness. i think what we're seeing is why for example the southern district of new york back the puzzler -- federal prosecutors there who had this case first decided to punt on it basically they would reject it and never pursued it with respect to former president trump. you can't do this case without michael cohen just like quickly cohen is the only witness by his own account to a january 2017 meeting in which there is a discussion of how the payment for the stormy daniels reimbursement of the

nondisclosure agreement, how those would be booked on the trump record. use the only witness if alan weisberg is not going to be called and you have to do this with cohen. there's no getting around it. >> we are waiting to hear from donald trump who promised he would have something to say when he left the courthouse which could be any second. i want to bring up-to-date on what happened earlier today. 10:31 am not too far from this courthouse that was the exact moment the dow crossed 40,000. first time its ever done that. in case you're keeping track its now up about 6% pack s&p 11% and nasdaq 11%. to put this in perspective, the dow is now essentially doubled from where it was around this time back in 2020. it's gone up about 45% since september 2022.

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looking at the new york state supreme court lower manhattan of course still waiting for donald trump here but it was a day they put the focus on michael cohen and his testimony. how unreliable a witness he would be to that fact he is a known liar and the questions that were directed at him and couldn't playing off of comments he had in the podcast audio played from a podcast where he thinks the da pin says picturing donald trump being led to the booking process fills me with delight. he also speaks more quickly in the podcast with a good deal of excitement about prospects for donald trump that might not look good. again the key here for the

defence is to try to prove he had a zealous hatred for donald trump even though there are some indications that was taken too far and was personally going on a vendetta campaign. a question his reliability as a witness as well. separately we are learning donald trump not only when he speaks, he is trained to get that gag order lifted. on appeals court would not let that happen and he is now going to try to make that happen. right what are the odds he will succeed? >> thank you neil for having me. i have said it before and i will say it again, the gag order is a tool, the mechanism of last resort in order to protect the defendant and secure a fair trial. it's rarely, of ever applied to the defendant. i've never seen it.

it's never applied just to 1 side. so the irregularities around the gag order i think highlight something so to have the can about the judge in this case. and this isn't being talked about pack the judge is also ignoring or will fruit -- woefully ignorant about several rules of evidence. wants been allowed and is not just reversible, but it's a direct violation of several rules of evidence in order to ensure that the trial is fair. if you are in donald trump's shoes, if you don't like them or not, how can you sit there and feel like you're getting a shot in the administration of justice and the opportunity to acquit yourself. >> neil: so the question than becomes has he been dinged enough watching us all play out they would question almost everything he has said? that's the goal of the defence right? >> yes. i've not had a witness, i put on

the stent or cross-examined on the stand that was more dangerous to my case as a prosecutor then michael cohen. and it is beyond me how anybody -- you would have to not care about a victory, not care about doing justice. you have to care more about really wanting to dirty up the target of your investigation and prosecution in order to put that key witness, some like michael cohen on the stand. it's a case i would say 99% of prosecutors out there would decline to bring it into 90 and scent arco judges out there wouldn't allow this to go to the jury. they would issue a direct verdict. >> what you think happens next? maybe another witness, the defence can always surprise you and call so when you might not think of. what do you think of? >> it's interesting because i will tell you, i know why the

judge would not want to let brad smith and. they find themselves in a position as a judge of being the only ones to convey what the law is. fist not surprise me that this judge did not let brad smith testify. i thank the defence needs to be more creative. would call the fact witness, some of the investigated the election complaint and bring them in and put them on the stand because the judge is more limited in allowing that to go to the jury and sohn who comes in as an expert on legal matters. >> neil: so in a prosecution redirected that were to happen monday pack what you expect of that? >> i thank the redirect is, what you want is the best lost word. you do want to try to rehabilitate michael cohen but neil i think we both know there is no level of rehabilitation that will occur. so the best lost word is going

to be something that strengthens the result of many jurors that a crime did occur. they've got to go back to what the elements are that they have to prove and the need to try to garner testimony from colin that hits at those elements and gets a jury to say okay, you know, regardless of how unreliable he is, i'm going to agree with them. that's dangerous because you still have cross-examination coming up. if they don't do a good job on redirect after and if they don't rehabilitate him they will lose more jurors. >> neil: i am wondering what you expect to hear when trump uses these moments to say this is a sham and it's unfair, he has the support of a lot of congressmen and powers that be in washington to sort of do the thing he cannot do. they are not gagged and they can

say what's on his mind right? >> it's true but i really think there is something that happened in their, neil, that have never seen before and is vary substantial. that is that the judge ruled on the scope of the cross-examination, if donald trump takes the stand and i think he did so in a manner that violates his right to not take the stand. in essence, the judges saying i'm going to prevent you from testifying on your own behalf by the ruling and creating. it's interesting. >> neil: we are going to hear from him right now to rehang in their life and. now to the present. >> testified -- >> thank you very much. i think it was very interesting day, a fascinating day. and it shows what a scan this whole thing is. i think it seems to be the way

almost everyone even cnn and msnbc they have mentioned to drop the trial. but not of even charge this case, it should never have been started against me. there is no law against this, there is none. every company has it. protecting your family or any other reason, nondisclosure, and he is. when the show trial against donald trump is a gross abuse of power and it's a disgusting spectacle. it terrifies all of us and that's true. jonathan turley fox news failing to protect the rights of the

defendant in requiring clarity. trump did not violate federal election law at all. i didn't violate any law. it's a scam. cannot prosecute federal election law, it's not within your jurisdiction. as you know this was started a long time ago. that should have been brought 7 or 8 years ago. they didn't do it because it was in the middle of the election and especially when were leading in the poll. it's a weird situation when the judge allows prosecutors to refer to election violations and as you know the federal elections looked at it and they didn't bring anything. andrew mccarthy pack nda's are legal and common.

i've known illegal nda. it seems trump's crime was winning the election. that was my crime fact i want an election i wasn't supposed to win against hillary clinton. and this not a crime. reich wants to prosecute room for federal campaign trial something he has no jurisdiction -- this from andrew mccarthy, highly respected. he's got no jurisdiction to do and the defence who does have jurisdiction decided not to do it, not to charge. they decided not to do it. they looked at it and decided not to do it. and bragg didn't want to do it himself. i started running and announced i was running, this is a political persecution. this case is a joke.

ashton kutcher is going to tell us we've been pumped. it seriously being called into question the impartiality of the american justice system. justice blind and yet -- and yet in this case -- i would appreciate if they do the right thing and we would appreciate if they did the right thing. fox news, how did they come to this? shows there is a problem with their legal system. this is not happening in america. michael goodman from the new york post, highly respected, about the show trial of defendant will jump. at substring or for more significant truth about him.

the candidate trump has opened up his biggest lead in the presidential campaign. holes in battleground states and evidence and other evidence the innermost turnout of over 100,000 people in new jersey this last weekend and spirited concessions by joe biden supporters signalling we reached a turning point in the bottle for the white house. it's all a big disgrace, it's all political. jason cohen, well respected. the case has increased support for trump. voters feel a lot better because they see what's happening in this horrible witchhunt. i've talked to many people who identified as a democrat formerly. but they said they have changed

their clinical persuasion to independent internet looking very forward to voting for donald trump. these are people who were democrats and looking to vote for donald trump. trump support and blackman has surged and also in battleground states by a large margin. national affairs correspondent jim melnyk said voters showed up disgusted and tired of what's going on with trump trial. charles from the new york post, had this case gone to a new york supreme court judge. they would've been dismissed. however, acting supreme court

justices are political opponents subject to clinical manipulation while trump is charged with fraud back the political handlers -- the case against donald trump 1 political aspect seems to be missing. where's the crime? mike davis, highly respected. this is blatant more fair and election interference by the radical democrats including president biden himself. democrats do not have a case against donald trump.

this is a witchhunt, it's a prosecution without a case. this is done to damage a political opponent. jeremy hunka fox news, this is about 1 man with the rule of law and judicial system. new york has got to do something about what's happening. look at judge angora and what they've done is a disgrace. everyone is laughing at the new york system. many companies with tremendous taxpaying dollars, millie's of people literally are leaving and taking the company and they are all watching this case. the biden democratic party sham.

international scandal that really harms america. our country's reputation is shining on the hell but it's tarnished now by political persecution of trump. it's vary sad we have story after story about how this trial is never been brought. and it should have been brought years ago. now they're trying to rush to get it done before the election so that they can hurt their political opponent. all of this rush back we hear earlier in the morning and relieved in the evening.

now the judge wants to extend the time periods so we can get this thing done fast before the election. it's terrible. if they all come out indirectly from the white house and the doj. want to say 1 thing, i've seen some news come out on inflation in the economy, on the ev mandate and how crazy it is. it's going to destroy our country it so crazy. but i saw something today, russia president vladimir putin i know him well, right now working on plans where they get together in do damage because that's ultimately what they're thinking. due damage. and we take a look at what was said today.

they expect to take taiwan. that's a big statement. i'm listening to a case that even people from cnn say should never have been brought. i've been sitting here almost 4 weeks and we saw a long way to go. i want to thank the lawyers involved because they've been working hard. and spending a lot of time and spending a lot of money which is what they want. want me to spend time and money and i am willing to do because ultimately were having a fight with the constitution. thank you very much everyone. >> are you going to debate? >> how much money are you spending? >> are you -- tomorrow? >> neil: >> speaker-04: you never know he might say something that we could break away to.

donald trump not at all pleased with the proceedings as the court wrapped up for the day and will resume next monday but the cross-examination of michael cohen continuing. the former president as he has taught almost every day appraising a number of key lawyers including andy mccarthy the former assistant attorney. anti-, basically what he was saying behind -- besides praising you, this was something that was a pile on but obviously the legal strategy today was to show that cohen has a long history of lying and not being honest. it started out with blanche going back to the testimony before the 2017 house intelligence committee. he lied under oath when he was charged with perjury later in 2018 and in other words he keeps doing this. he has a habit of repeating this. that something the defence kept pounding, how can you rely on

this guy? how can a conviction be based on his word if he is so often violating that? what did you make of that? >> i think if you look again at the case there are aspects of it as to which he is an essential witness. he is the link in the chain of proof that gets it to trump which means if you reject his testimony or even if you don't reject it, if you think maybe he is telling the truth but you understand that you can't convict someone unless it's proof beyond a reasonable doubt, at a person of this low level of credibility cannot be by himself -- cannot be himself proved beyond reasonable doubt, they when the case. what todd blanche is doing is exactly what he should be doing witches to show the jury that this guy is not just a strategic liar he's a compulsive liar, at something he does instinctually. the other thing i would say about it nihilism you can have a

case where a witness has credibility problems. as they always say you don't get creased and nuns as are you're witnesses and mafia cases. you get bad below. you have to be able to try cases that play but you want to be able to tell the jury that you have corroboration, whether it's another witness or a document or tape recording that every place where you're asking them to accept the witnesses story, you can back it up. here, they not only don't have that khaki's got the additional problem of bias on top of the dishonesty that's very hard to overcome. >> neil: 1 of the things that comes through with colin and probably didn't help make his case here with getting trump to go to prison and his podcast where he said all this stuff,

didn't really speak to his solidarity as a witness. what do you think we. >> while it doesn't. you can have a lot of baggage and still do well on the stand. i am not there, but i'm kind of following the play-by-play. my impression is that todd blanche did a much better job on cohen today then he did yesterday. and he makes a very important point, there is a lot of corroboration of other aspects of the case, but there is no specific corroboration of the park cohen brings. that's why it is so important to attack him. but also keep in mind despite the importance of colons, as a witness, there is still terrible legal problems with even bringing this case. it's a very weak case legally, not to mention the rulings the

judge has made during the trial. so, even if the government is to prevail here with i thank the jury is out, they are going to have problems here i believe on appeal. >> lit esq on that point, the fact that this could rapidly -- obviously there might be a special witness or 2 we don't know. this could presumably wrap up sometime next week and go to a jury i would assume the latter part of next week. how do you see it timewise? >> it looks like that could happen. of course the judge could surprise us all and rule that doesn't even get to the jury because the government has not made his case but i doubt that will happen. but it is wrapping up fairly soon and appears that weigh to me. and he knows more about new york law he may be able to shed more

light on. >> neil: andy what do you think of that? >> i agree that it seems to be winding down but i am just tried to play out what woods -- what still coming. they haven't finished coal in they thought they might today and the government might be able to rest, they went. my experience is that if you let it go over the weekend and you're going to get the witness again first thing monday, they may go longer with him than they anticipate. i assume it there we'll be a lot of redirect prosecution. i don't know whether there we'll be a defence case are not. the judge seems resistant to allowing the expert witness. i don't know if they're going to put costello on, that would be lengthy. the other thing i think we need to keep our eye on is every case you have a charge conference where they work out what the jury's going to be told via the judge, about the law that applies to the case. very often it only takes about a

half an hour because the laws pretty straightforward. i think this is contentious a case i've ever seen with respect to what the jury's going to be told about the law especially with respect to the underlying second part. that might be a very lengthy contentious hearing. >> neil: i'm also wondering donald trump's push to get a second appeals court to deal with this gag order he is no fan of it. he hopes on appeal he can succeed and get it removed. how likely do think that is? >> i don't think it's very likely certainly at the new york state court level. but i've got to tell you, you certainly say a lot. he doesn't like the gag order but he is making his points and i think making them vary effectively, the points he's making in his press briefings. when you see people, and it's true, you see some commentators

on cnn and even msnbc who kind of say, you know, explain this to me again, what is this case about? ad showing some confusion. that is important and rare. >> so, let me get your sense again of this timeline here. it seems unlikely they don't have enough to take it to a jury. how do you see this going right now we asked the defence scored points on the credibility and reliability of a witness that is cohen, he might not be living up to it. of course we don't know what the jurors are thinking, what are you thinking? >> i am still puzzled by some of the defence i have to say. i don't know why todd blanche opened to the jury fighting other he actually had a sling with stormy daniels. i don't know why their position is that the nondisclosure

agreements are totally legal, which they are, why would you argue to the jury that michael cohen paid the whole thing to stormy and trump didn't pay him back. i just don't know why you would bite off things that you don't have to win on. they have 2 and vary narrowly here as i see it on 3 things. falsity, fraud and a second crime. the governments proof of falsity is paltry to my mind, i don't see any evidence of an intent to defraud and the second crime i don't see how you proved beyond reasonable doubt that trump wilfully committed it. that's the way i would have tried the case. they've got into a lot of areas i think they didn't need to take on and you have to worry about whether the jury would be confused by that. >> yes, i thought the same with the question a back-and-forth of stormy daniels and asking michael cohen about this.

that she had ever been paid or that there is something to her story because they resurrected a recorded conversation on had promised a reporter that donald trump did in fact have a -- and a width chinese president xi jinping and had it paid off and help pay her off. on that same call we are told cohen said belief and because he is a bad liar but on the stand he said he was lying at the time. it leaves jurors may be confused, are you lying then or now? what else are you lying about? what do you think we. >> i was surprised that they spent so long on the cross of stormy daniels. i believe they argued most of her testimony shouldn't be admitted at all because it wasn't relevant and then i thought there was, i thought from what i could tell from the transcript. i think she did pretty poorly on

direct. she was obviously volunteering all kinds of thanks she shouldn't have and i thought she did pretty poorly on the first afternoon when the defence got her later in the day. but then i thought she was much more effective the next day as a witness. i would agree with your questioning. i thought they had her on too long. she is certainly is not critical to the ultimate charge here. that was baffling to me. >> especially when it kept pounding the point with michael cohen himself and harken back to this prerecorded conversation where cohen promised trump never ever had an affair with her and again to say, you know, he was lying to that reporter then and he wasn't lying now. and again, that plants seeds of doubts in the jury that must be confused right?

>> jury has to be confused, meal. the thing you just mentioned about cohen, you have to not -- not his credibility out of the park. i think they've done that and that's a big part of the mission here. but i think, there is part of the defence that is colliding into itself which i think it could hurt them in the end even though they should win the case on the log. if your position in the case is that the nondisclosure agreements are illegal and that there is no problem with them, then you can act like they are radioactive and you've got to keep trump a million miles away from them and have him have no participation in it because there's going to be enough evidence there that the jury can sign he may have had some participation in them. >> neil: alright guys think you both very much and he and saul. inflation news after this or cak. now, how about something to put a smile on your face?

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what is it what the white house when they keep having the president go back and say he inherited and 9% oblations which was not the case. weave the chairman of the economic advisors council, i don't if we got anywhere on the subject but take a look. >> never will this president blow all the struggles families like the 1 he grew up in going through her instead he will take action to help them through cutting costs, prescription club, -- prescription drugs, healthcare, healthcare, actively working to lower costs in those areas so not dismissive of a -- americas concerns in that regard >> neil: i somewhat disagree with you on some things in that but i want to get to why the president keeps claiming this. >> we have genetically reduced inflation from 9% down to close to 3%. we are in a situation where we are better situated than we were

only took office. 9%. but look people have a right to be concerned. at thank inflation has gone slightly up back more than 9% when i came in and it's now down around 3%. >> neil: why does he keep saying that? you're his talk -- top economic -- to every whisper in his ear just to be technical it wasn't 9%, it was 1 point for% p. rick got as high as 9% in 2022 and you brought it down but it was never 9% when you came into office. why does he keep saying that? >> first let me point out in that quote you played he talked about how concerned he was for households struggling with prices that -- >> neil: is not what i asked to. why does he keep misrepresenting this quick. >> he is making the point that the factors that cost inflation climbed to 9 some act were in place when he took office. >> neil: this not what he

said. he said it was at 9% it would eventually get there a little over a year after but the fact of the matter is it wasn't 9%. if i can trust him quoting data in realtime, why should i believe what he is talking about now? >> the annual growth in court in the second quarter 21 was about 9% and his point about inflation down 60% is very much the case. >> neil: no, it wasn't it was not at that. you're almost as bad as hemp why can't you just say, it was high. it got as high as 9%. be accurate in saying that and we have now brought it down and struggling around 3%. it's better than it was but instead -- to hang it on his predecessor that he inherited something that was through the roof in the middle of covid-19, it seems to the american people -- your lying. you're just lying. >> hold on. i hear you, i hear you. the president was making the

point that i think is unequivocally true. the factors that took inflation to 9% were in place when he took office. >> neil: that's not what he said jared. years smart guy with the stuff. he is a good friend of yours obviously he thinks the world of view. you could have just told him i've got to tell you mr president you might even call him joe that's how close you are. and just say, sir,, it was not 9%. stop it with the 9%. the more you save the more people don't believe what you're saying. >> look i think what the american people care most about -- >> neil: it's true, they care about truth. >> meal it only works if you let me talk. >> neil: you haven't asked -- answer my question i've asked you 5 ways. >> the president was making the point that the factors that caused inflation were in place when he took office. that's true. i take your point and we can go on all day back and forth on

this. i think what matters today is are we making progress on lowering costs as well as lowering inflation? you know they are the same thing. lowering inflation and costs on behalf of the american people. we saw a great report late yesterday in that regard but that's just 1 point. >> neil: the full interview -- interview is on our sight. chi briefly lost my appetite after doing that interview. kai regained it don't worry. but man just to be clear we fact check here, everybody, 1.4% coming into office, not 9%. it reached 9% under his watch not his predecessors watch. just sharing the fact. any other representation of that is wrong. or after this imagine a future where plastic is not wasted... but instead remade over and over... into the things that keep our food fresher, our families safer, and our planet cleaner. to help us get there, america's plastic makers

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♪ ♪ >> neil: all right, that full interview is on our fox business website. you can feel free to look at it there. we can only err so much here. i do want to go to gary help mom on this because it cuts to the core of who you can depend on and rely on. the president is leading with this and saying this is what he inherited, everyone knows, even passive followers of the economy know that is not the case when he came into office. you just can't play that game. what do you think? >> and it's not once or twice or three times. it's quite a few times they are coming out with that.

the other part of the equation is how many jobs were created under his watch when a ton of it was covid coming back. look, all we are interested in, i think any of us are interested in, just tell us it straight. it's okay if things weren't so great for a while because things are better. inflation has come down. milk prices are still way up -- >> neil: what you just said, go with the truth. the truth is, yeah, it did rocket up to 9% and we were getting really bloody worried. it is no longer 9%, it's a brown 3%, still outrageously high grocery prices. that is something called the truth. that's the reality. not this 9% coming in, or the seeds were planted for 9% inflation. they were not planted. >> and what ends up happening, you get a bad reputation, and i always taught my children, if you lie once, you are going to have to cover up the lie a second time, and if you're found

out to be lying, people aren't going to believe you the next go round, and that the reputation starts, so let's hope you learn a lesson. to tell us the way it is. that's all anybody wants. that's all politicians and all parties. enough's enough. just give it to us the way it is. >> neil: don't tell us we are imagining it. republicans will try, coming out of it, george bush sr., i get it but you have to acknowledge that, don't make the american people feel dumb for feeling otherwise. you might throw facts at them and talk about prescription drug prices coming down, tell that to the person paying double for hamburger, or dare i say it, italian sausage, gary, which outrages me. your thoughts? >> i think they have to start recognizing, especially in an election year, people are watching, and people are not stupid, so look into the camera, tell us the numbers, or we are going to show you the numbers, and then you end up looking stupid and you lose the credibility, and some votes,

also, in a very, very close election as we head into november. >> neil: super quickly, my friend, we crossed 40,000 for a while, look like we might end there, didn't, all averages close down a teeny bit. but we got there. what do you make of that? >> interest rates on the 10-year went from 4.7 down to 4.4. i can tell you short turn probably pull back but i think we are in pretty decent stead right now and hopefully the economy stays in good stead. if we lose the job market, you'll be hearing from me, neil, but so far, so good appeared >> neil: so far, so good. gary, always good talking to you. again, we fact-check this, this is the nerdy thing, we are really obsessed with, get the numbers right. the numbers don't lie. you have some good news you can report, but you cannot make up stuff as if it is fact. it is not. here is "the five." ♪ ♪ >> dana: hello, everyone. i'