the system and tear it down and to make money off of that. that doesn't distress me. none of that distresses me, you know, the theocracy is the idiotic. what i am bothered by is how many more americans after seeing this crap show, day in and day out, continue to buy it, and they think the threat is joe biden, when the threat is already in the house. >> michael steele, thank you. as always. that is all for all in, special coverage starts right now with alex wagner. >> do i get to be simone now that it's you and steal, does that mean, no? >> no one could ever replace simone but we love you, alex. >> i just meant, nevermind. that was a great conversation

and an important one. all right, we have a lot to get to tonight, after another day of major testimony in donald trump's first criminal trial. michael cohen, was back on the stand today, facing cross- examination from todd blanche. for anyone who is county, mr. cohen has been on the stand for more than 14 hours with more to come on monday. and nearly all day today todd blanche tried to undermine mr. cohen's credibility as a witness. blanche spent half the morning recalling different episodes when michael cohen lied publicly, lying to congress, lying in court, lying about whether or not he sought a party, if it essentially forcing one: to admit that he has been untruthful. blanche also tried to paint: as something as a renegade, a man who spent the 2016 election cycle casting out on his own, speaking to the press both publicly and privately, without donald trump's consent, or his

supervision. blanche tried to call into question michael cohen's memory, his ability to recall key moments in this case. and that all built to what was probably the biggest moment of today, when the defense managed to cast doubt on a key part of commerce story. you have to go back to 2016 when donald trump was running an unusually clean campaign for president. and one of his unlikely campaign surrogates was his personal attorney, michael cohen. >> these are donald trump's words, he's going to stay true to who he is and he is going to end up in all fairness, he's going to end up winning this election. >> he's a mentor, he's a sage, he's like family. >> i've worked for mr. trump for a long time and i can tell you that mr. trump's memory is

fantastic. i've never come across a situation where mr. trump has said something that's not accurate. >> there are, seriously? >> seriously. >> seriously? and the same period, michael cohen was allegedly negotiating the stormy daniels hush money payment on trump's behalf but because he was publicly associated with the trump campaign going on the news to -- because michael cohen was one of the public faces of the campaign, michael cohen was also being harassed by members of the public. specifically in the weeks before the election, he was getting prank phone calls from someone who claimed to be a 14- year-old kid. on october 24th, 2016, michael cohen texted trump's body man, schiller, to report the prank caller to the secret service which, okay, his body man, wrote back, call me which michael cohen did. the two men spoke for about a minute and a half. now the problem for michael cohen is that he previously

testified that that minute and have phone call was actually a call where keith schiller gave his phone to donald trump and cohen updated trump about the stormy daniels situation. today in court, todd blanche sees on the potential disparity to attack michael cohen. is on the few moments when todd blanche has expressed any emotion. that was a lie, you did not talk to president trump on that night, you talked to keith schiller about the prank phone call. >> cohen, i'm not certain that was accurate. based upon the records that i reviewed and in light of everything going on, i believe i spoke to mr. trump about the stormy daniels matter. blanche, we are not asking for your belief, this jury does not want to hear what you think

happened. prosecution, objection. judge merchan, sustained. that was arguably the most successful attack on michael cohen's credibility in the entire cross-examination and we will see what impact it has on the jury, if any but other than that, the most meaningful thing the defense did was to drag this whole thing out for the entire second half of today's cross-examination, todd blanche really did appear to be playing for time, trying to stretch the cross-examination to the end of the day. court is not in session tomorrow, so donald trump can attend his son's high school graduation and then quickly leave baron on graduation night to go to a fundraiser in minneapolis that is 1700 miles away. every family celebrates differently. that means the jury will now sit with michael cohen's testimony for three days which is either a good thing or bad thing. on the one hand, the jury will be left to spend the entire

weekend thinking about the defense's first successful attack on michael cohen. on the other hand, the prosecution will have the entire weekend to think about how to respond when they get their chance to question michael cohen on monday. at which point, we may be hearing the end of this whole thing. judge merchan finished the day by telling both sides to be prepared to give their closing arguments as soon as next tuesday. michael cohen will be the last witness for the prosecution. as far as the defense goes, we still do not know which witnesses they will call, if any, the defense still does not know if it is going to call the only expert witness on its list , an expert on election law. but there is some speculation that the defense may try and call a witness who is not on their list, a trump world attorney that was close to rudy giuliani and was dispatched in 2018 to try and keep michael cohen in line. so it seems that trump's defense is making decisions on the fly, including the biggest decision of all, today trump's attorneys told the court that they still do not know if donald trump will take the

stand. joining me now are my great colleagues, rachel maddow, and lawrence o'donnell. it is a pleasure to have you both, lawrence i know you were at trial and rachel, i know you follow the saga as we all do and i wonder, conventional wisdom out there today is that todd blanche had a better day than he has. i wonder what your assessment is? >> i think your observation that he seemed to be playing for time is a good assessment because everybody who i've seen direct reporting including our own staff members who have been in the courtroom and the overflow room were all remarking kind of throughout the course of the day, where is this going, where is this going? not only was there no cinematic or dramatic rhythm to it, it just kind of sprawled, that said, as you pointed out, he did seem to catch michael cohen in a bit of a cul-de-sac on the question of whether or not one particular conversation that cohen recounted , whether one

particular conversation with trump actually happened the way cohen remembered it. i say it was one conversation with trump because i think it's important that that particular phone call wasn't like the linchpin of michael cohen's testimony or the prosecution's case, this one call that he described with trump was just one of the communications he described in which he sort of updated trump on the status of the hush money scheme with stormy daniels. it's not a key matter, by trying to shake michael cohen's memory loose on that point, by trying to make the jury question whether or not the call went down exactly the way he said it did, they are essentially trying to stick a prybar in the crack and mess him up as a witness and make it seem like nothing he said can be trusted at all and that is

certainly a real legal tactic. it appears to be the only thing they have accomplished on cross- examination, so i will be interested to see when redirect starts, when the prosecution gets him back as a witness and when both sides to their summations, whether this is going to be effectively, their whole defense against this whole case for donald trump. >> a prank phone call that led to a call to keith schiller. let's just talk about how this landed in the courtroom. the transcript reads that michael cohen, he sticks to his line, effectively. he does not capitulate but because blanche showed some emotion and was on attack mode, how did it feel to you? >> let me get control of this emotion thing. we've all heard tv shows, tv political chat shows where it's louder and angrier than what todd blanche did so yeah, it was the loudest that how --

todd blanche has been in the loudest voice i heard but this was the most mild-mannered courtroom i've ever been in including michael cohen and as rachel knows, especially the judge and the other lawyers, so there's a certain amount of excitement surging out of that room with the reporters who finally heard somebody say something that sounded you know, really, you know, dramatic, and it did, and it was extremely effective and one reason why it was extremely effective is that it was a surprise. this was not a piece that the district attorney had prepared us for. the crank collar, we found out about in cross-examination, we didn't know about the crank collar on direct examination, so we are all sitting there learning about the crank collar who turns out to be 14 years old and michael cohen handles it, generously for him, once he found out it's a 14-year-old kid but he was trying to scare the kid, don't do this. so what it eventually became

for michael cohen is okay, the call that i made to keith schiller at 8102 and earlier tonight i just reread the way he described that with the district attorney, what happened today doesn't contradict what he said to the district attorney, it amplifies it. if true, so it was yeah, i called keith schiller right in the middle of that harassment business and yes, i said something to keith schiller about the harassment thing, what do we do about that and then he handed the phone to donald trump and i said to him, we've got to wrap up the stormy daniels thing and all that happens in one minute 32 and if you write that dialogue, it can happen in a minute 32. especially when donald trump's responses in these dialogues and other spots include lifelike, just do it.

>> that's good. that's good. >> and the just do it line comes before this phone call happens, so to rachel's point which is important, is this phone call isn't the only testimony about donald trump ordering this payoff to stormy daniels which in effect, causes the false business records to be created, which is what, by the way, the trials about falsifying businesses, there's 34, todd blanche hasn't mentioned one of them, so, did todd blanche have a good day, yes, as long as you count the day as 10 minutes. but i will say, the rest of his day was effective because it was messy, the da did this chronologically, he just rambled all over different dates and that's a smart move because it makes michael cohen flying chaotic whereas, in the das version of it, you understood okay, his profession

was lying for donald trump in house, for donald trump whether it be to gossip magazines or eventually for a political candidate. and then there comes a time where his line for donald trump gets him indicted and now you've got him in this weird crossfire of his own lies but when you hear it in that you know, biographical way, when i was told by the prosecution, it makes sense, when you heard it through todd blanche today, it's chaotic lying, so it was a smart move by blanche to not go chronologically. >> to lawrence's point and to your point, the defense has not focused in on i don't know why donald trump would be paying michael cohen $35,000 a month and they haven't gotten to the essence of the charges at all, they really focused on the credibility issue. and i was reminded of something that the judge said about michael cohen's credibility in the civil fraud case.

this is in his ruling, this factfinder does not believe that pleading guilty to perjury means that you can never tell the truth. michael cohen told the truth. i mean, it's a very simple concept but i think it could hold up here. >> so a, michael cohen could have been lying about other things and not lying about the things he has testified to. that can rationally exist. the other thing though, and i think this might have been with the prosecution was driving at in their opening statements when they essentially conceded like yeah, michael cohen, controversial guy, you will hear a lot about michael cohen here but everything important you will hear from him, we have collaborated. we have other ways to prove to you that the important things that he's going to say are things that actually happened. so the prosecution has been preparing for months for the whole defense mounted against this case on trump's behalf to be michael cohen is a liar. if that is what they are trying

to do, if that's what they are tripling down on, if that's the only defense they will mount, ultimately with the jury is being told is donald trump hired a guy who's a real bully and a liar to do his work for him and had him work for him doing that for about 10 years. and oh, by the way, the underlying scheme that's being charged here as a felony, is effectively a lie, when you're paying hush money to somebody, you are telling them to live by omission, to not tell a true story because you don't want it to get out, so if what they are proving is donald trump as a way of doing business had somebody on his payroll whose job was professionally to lie and intimidate people and that is in effect a description of the underlying conduct that led to the charges. i'm not sure the jury ultimately has a great revelation, you know, about no, there's a liar in this room. it's as helpful to the

prosecution as it is to the defense. >> lying liars and the people who live. lawrence, did you get a sense that the killing time was really another part of their strategy and all of this. >> it's not killing time, it's entertaining donald trump. so donald trump's definition of torture on a witness stand is just being on a witness stand which is why he never does it, so he thinks every minute you are on the witness stand under oath is hell of his demand is make sure that it is hell for those people who get on the witness stand and testify against me and so, it's a risky thing for lawyers because you know, jurors, catch on when you are treading water and they don't like it but i don't think todd blanche has reached that point with the jury, i think she kept -- kept it alive today,

and the fact that he kept jumping around chronologically it was helpful to keep everybody alert and he did something that lawyers rarely ever get to do and any trial, he surprised everybody. this 14-year-old phone call harassed her, who turned out to be a key element of important phone call, was not in this case until he pulled that rabbit out of the hat, so jurors aren't going to penalize you for that, that keeps them awake. >> of the 14-year-old, i believe now 22-year-old, we invite you to the program, would love to hear what you said to michael cohen, is your refrigerator running? i would like to know. please stay with me, we have much more to discuss this evening in our special coverage of donald trump's hush money trial right after the break. the break. and certificates at umgc.edu. are your gutters clogged?

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we have a lot of congressmen and senators down today and they are all up in arms over this. they can't even believe it. quite a few congressmen, you will be talking to them. >> day after day, trump surrogates have been setting up shop after court and talking to the press. trump is barred by his gag order and is also part from directing others to talk about those people which is what makes all of this so concerning. when trump's latest batch of surrogates spoke today, they again attacked two individuals

the judge has specifically identified as off-limits, michael cohen and the judges own daughter. >> i'm honored to be here with my colleagues from the house freedom caucus where we watched michael cohen get dog walked through the series of lies he has told. >> perjure in chief, michael cohen. >> mr. cohen, admitted repeatedly that he lied. >> he admitted to lying to numbers of congress. >> seeing the lack of credibility from michael cohen. >> we would be remiss if we did not mention this corrupt judge, this judge whose own family is making six figures off of democrat politics. >> we have a judge whose daughter -- >> the judge's daughter -- >> that's the judges daughter -- >> all of that, clearly breaks the judges gag order if trump

indeed directed it. the question now, is did he? >> this gag order is to ensure that he cannot defend himself fairly so we are here to have his back and we are president trump's voice and we have his back and he will ultimately be proven innocent. >> rachel, the contention here is these people are here as members of the public. i know you have been to the courtroom and i hear it's a difficult thing, can you talk about what that process was like for you getting seats and how coveted those seats were? >> it's a big long line and you have to wait forever and there's tons of security and it blows out your whole day i mean lawrence has been doing it every day. it's no easy thing. i think it cost some of those members of congress votes today in d.c. i'm a big believer in people showing up to court and

if you know somebody who's on trial and you believe in their innocence or whether or not you believe in it, you just want to support them, being there for them, that's a good thing. there's a reason why our courtrooms are open to the public, so everybody can see the proceedings and everybody can show up. but if you are a you know, public official, the kind of person who's going to speak to the cameras when you walk out during the morning break, the normal course of events is to say, i'm here to support my friend or my colleague or my boss or the guy i want to hire me to be vice president, i believe in x person's innocence, and i believe the jury is going to see that truth, too, i believe that this will be born out in the end and everybody will see. that my colleague, my friend, my boss is innocent. that's all normal but instead what you are getting is these numbers of congress saying we are here to support him and the american legal system is illegitimate and corrupt.

and the judge is corrupt and we tell you about the judges family. and that is just a wholly different thing. it is a hard thing to have people in very high office committing crimes. it was hard next and, hard with agnew and it's hard with trump. instead you've got a political party saying the american legal system should be gotten rid of because it's corrupt and the people involved in it are corrupt and evil and persecuting you and me. that is something totally different, that is corrosive to the legal system and potentially fundamentally destructive to it if that will become the new pro--- protocol. >> there are so many levels at which this is appalling, lawrence, there's the big

picture that rachel is outlining, there's the smaller picture of what it is doing two potential witnesses, there was a back and forth about these surrogates being in the trial during cross-examination, michael cohen has to walk by them, going out there and interviewing cohen, can you talk about the net effect that this is having as you go to this trial? >> in the courtroom, no effect at all. you know the old parliamentary phrase, backbenchers, that's what they became because there were too many of them today, there's a row in the front behind donald trump for supporters and there's usually not two or three of them but there were so many of them that they were literally sent to the back bench of the courtroom that is against the wall, furthest away from their hero, and most were people who, i didn't know who they were, i knew they were members of

congress but it's not like they were the most prominent, some of them, i knew who they were but they have absolutely no effect on the proceedings. with that shot of them outdoors, that's the largest collection of trump supporters who have ever gathered at the publicly available gathering place for all trump supporters to come. you notice there's no one behind them. nypd has reserved a spot for citizens from all over america or new york city or lower manhattan, voters, trump supporters, fighting voters, no one comes, donald trump one of them to come, they refused to come those people came and that's his biggest crowd ever. here is an opportunity they have because what they do is they come in for the morning session, they leave at the first recess which is 11:00 a.m. and they never come back. matt gaetz is the only one who came back but now they've been in the courtroom, they've been there for two hours.

you watched judge merchan, instead of coming up and talking about his daughter, come up and talk about his rulings because you just watched him make some rulings, you watched him rule on several objections and you watched him overrule the prosecutor's objections a number of times, did you agree with that? you watched him sustain some objections, do you understand why? because what todd blanche just said was argumentative and not a question. one of the great tragedies of this trial, not being televised is that they get to go out there and lie about how the trial is going because none of them have ever in their lives seen and they never will see a more fair judge than judge merchan, and any televised version of this trial would prove that, every minute of the trial. >> chris hayes referred to him as a picture of >> and enemy

>> we have new reporting that i find absolutely staggering, that for days, around january 17, 2021, neighbors told the new york times that justice alito, had an american flag hanging upside down outside of his house. that inverted flag was being used as a symbol of the stop the steal movement. this is a justice who is very engaged around issues regarding trump's role in the instruction, apparently had a stop the steal flag flying outside of his house and he says i had no involvement of the flying of the flag, it was briefly placed by mrs. alito in response to a neighbor's use of objectionable language on our yard signs. >> this is just a battle

between neighbors, rachel, do you have thoughts on that news coming against the backdrop of today? >> i mean, it's, it's unsettling, it's gross. i mean, first of all, everybody has different marriage rules but it's my wife's fault is probably never within the marriage rules when you're talking to the new york times about something that you've done that has brought enough scandal on you and the institution that you represent that it's on the front page of the new york times. even if it was, i don't know, i don't want to give any advice. but i feel like, the upside down flag, it wasn't like he had a trump 2024 or 2028 five, it was the american flag upside down which is the traditional symbol of distress. unless mrs. alito was signaling her distress and calling for help, the explanation makes no sense, that was something that people were doing around that time to indicate that the country was effectively under siege in some way.

i mean, justice alito has become increasingly on embarrassed about displaying himself as a consumer of partisan media, and it's just disdainful toward a majority of the country. and this fits with that but it's also something that i've never heard anything like this in the entire history of every controversy i've ever known about. i think chief justice roberts has a problem on his hands in terms of the behavior of some of the more aggressive justices and those who are flouting ethics concerns with their behavior. >> that flag is not donald

trump's fault that flag is george w. bush's fault, that's who appointed samuel alito to the supreme court so anyone who got in the 2000 election, al gore doesn't excite me, that's what you got from the decision or if you thought bush is the reason -- i think he's going to be more of a connecticut bush than a texas bush, you were wrong, this is what you got. >> legacy of the court. it's on the ballot again this year. rachel maddow, lawrence o'donnell, thank you for joining me. i appreciate your time and energies. we have more special coverage of the day 18 trump criminal trial after the break, stay with us. with us. so like other people have it and it's not... pick up a bag of the new scotts turf builder healthy plus lawn food today. feed your lawn. feed it. (♪♪) heartburn makes you queasy? get fast relief with new tums+ upset stomach & nausea support,

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today prosecutor susan hopkins called for a sidebar about the ongoing presence of trump's entourage in the courtroom. >> i noticed that some of his guests are already here with her security detail but we would just ask that they not be allowed to file income in the middle of mr. blanche's cross- examination, the court, yes, i would advise that not happen, todd blanche, your honor, i have less than zero control over what is happening on anyone that is behind me when i am crossing a witness, i don't have any control over that, they are members of the public. to be clear, these lawmakers are sitting in seats reserved for donald trump's defense

team. joining me now is congressman schiff, thank you for being here. i imagine you have some thoughts about your fellow house colleagues who have been trekking up to new york city to stand outside of the courtroom and weigh in on this trial. >> i have so many thoughts and let me start with the speaker, i have to say i was flabbergasted that he would go and make that pilgrimage, stand outside the courthouse, and basically lie about what's going on inside the building. it's bad enough that he lacked the self-respect that he feels he needs to go and kiss the ring in such a public and debasing way but also, for him to denigrate the justice system, for him to make the false claim that this trial was designed to keep trump off the campaign trail, he knows better than that but it shows, you know the most powerful top ranking republican in the

congress, you know, will do anything for donald trump, and for those others, you know the matt gaetz, the paula luna, these are crazy people and you don't expect much more but i will say this, too, the fact that some of them are going into the courtroom, this is a way to tamper with the jury, this is a way to essentially communicate to the jury that we believe this is political, we are here to show support for the president. that's making a statement without saying a word. and that is distressing for much the same reason. >> huntsman because you singled out the speaker, you were one of 163 democrats who voted to effectively save speaker johnson for the motion to vacate, do you have any regrets about that and would you do it again if there was another call to oust him from his position? >> i don't regret it, we need a

governing entity, we need somebody sitting in that speaker's chair. i want to get things done for my constituents, we've got major challenges with the cost of housing and childcare, i want to get things done, you can't do that without a speaker in the chair, second, i didn't believe it was right to essentially vacate him from the chair because he finally got around to approving ukraine eight, so for both of those reasons i don't have regrets but i have to say, it's still difficult to stomach when you see him do what he did, standing in front of the courthouse and it just shows you that there is no one in that republican conference anymore, not since liz cheney left, not since adam kinzinger left, that has any real, commitment to the constitution, their oath, our system of justice. it's all about keeping power, gaining power, and no debasement to great before

their supreme leader. >> it's worth noting that the cynical moves and not end at the new york city courthouse. a lot of those same members had to travel back to washington to vote to hold the attorney general in contempt for refusing to hand over the tapes of the conversations that president biden had with the special counsel. the one-two punch of standing out there. tell me more about that endeavor. >> well, i was sitting in that judiciary committee as a member of the committee, as they were bringing up this bogus effort to hold the attorney general in contempt for not giving audiotapes of something they already have the transcripts for. it's come to that pathetic of a motion to hold the attorney general of the united states in contempt for so they can give tapes to the campaign team for

campaign commercials that is donald trump's campaign but meanwhile, you had republican members missing from the whole debate because they are in new york, you had you know, members like matt gaetz who missed the vote completely, and it shows you where their priorities. they don't think it's important enough to stay in washington to vote on holding the attorney general in contempt of it has to compete with being a spectator in the hush money payment to a star trial of donald trump. and you know, they, they, the thing that i find so shocking about all of this is, i have to imagine and i made this point at committee, that if you asked mike johnson 10 to 15 years ago whether he could ever see himself standing in front of the courthouse vouching for the character effectively of someone charged with paying hush money payment to a star he would have never imagined doing such a crass thing and yet, there he is. and it's one small surrender of you know, morality, followed by another, slightly bigger and pretty soon you are standing

outside of the courtroom paying hush money to a porn star. >> i want to get your reporting that justice samuel alito was reportedly flying a stop the steal flag in front of his house around january 17th of 2021. do you have a thought on that given the role the supreme court has played around january 6th? >> this is why americans have no trust in the supreme court anymore. they see a justice with a flag you know essentially a stop the steal flag outside of their home, presiding, sitting in cases affecting the investigation into that effort to incite the attack on the capitol. you have justice thomas, whose wife was in text messages and email communications about this effort to overturn the election, sitting and voting

against as a member of the court, voting against providing documents to congress that might implicate his spouse, not just a perceived conflict but a real conflict and this is why people have no confidence in the court and there at the moment, there's no recourse for this. they can violate the code of ethics because there is no enforceable code of ethics to the supreme court but i think as you were discussing earlier with respect to alito, he is proud of his disdain for public opinion. he is more than willing to wear his partisan colors on his sleeve or in this case, on the flagpole. >>, smith adam shiff, thank you for joining me. i appreciate your time, sir. >> thank you. we have more special coverage of trump on trial coming up right after this break. this break.

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♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, ♪ ♪ liberty. ♪ today trump defense attorney todd blanche spent most of the day trying to present michael cohen is a liar. you lied under oath, correct? yes sir. blanche, as we talked about you pled guilty to lying to congress, correct? cohen, i did. you get the gist. todd blanche spent a lot of time on michael cohen's lies, but it should be noted he spent little time challenging his main assertions about donald

trump's knowledge and complicity in the stormy daniels hush money scheme. does that matter? draining you know as the former assistant district attorney for the eastern district of new york and senior writer at politico magazine. thank you both. does it matter? the excess of lies that cohen admitted to on the stand. >> he is a lying liar who lies all the time and everyone agrees about that. the prosecution agrees, the defense agrees. >> michael cohen agrees. >> everyone agrees but i think where the defense was effective in the cross-examination was not only establishing for hours of testimony that he lied in the past. they did an effective job, but they showed instances where michael cohen lied on the stand, to this jury during this trial and i think it resonated differently. for example, michael cohen testified that he never wanted to be chief of staff at the

white house. the defense confronted him today with emails and text messages that showed he was pining for this job. does it matter? no, but it is a lie he told to this jury. another example, he said he was never disputing the underlying facts of his tax crimes and the defense did a good job showing excerpts from his book, which is called revenge, and excerpts of his trial testimony from the civil fraud trial, showing in fact that he was disputing the facts of his tax crimes. he said he pleaded guilty in the southern district because he was coerced into that plea. they were threatening to indict his wife and the defense showed the plea allocution, which undermined that, too. those don't really bear on the ultimate act, but our little lies here and there he was telling on tuesday to this jury and then this phone call that happened on october 24. >> the keith schiller phone call. >> look, it is explainable because we know from common

sense that when you are texting with somebody and you say this person is bothering me and someone says call me and you have a 92nd phone call, you are probably having a phone call about what you are texting about and that makes sense from common sense, but it is possible they had a conversation about stormy daniels during that 92nd phone call. i partially blame the prosecution for pinning this so specifically, this date, this time -- >> this particular phone call. >> they could have said, did there come a time when you had this conversation? it doesn't need to be as specific as this call on the 24th. of course the wire payment happened two days later and there were two other phone calls two days later between michael cohen and donald trump. it is all explainable, but they had a gotcha moment with that 90 second phone call where michael cohen testified on direct examination that he spoke -- >> on tuesday. >> on tuesday to this very jury

in this witness box, to these people. so i think that is a problem and they will now be able to go in closing and say not only is he a liar, but he lied to you. he took an oath and looked at you, you who will be rendering this verdict, he lied to you and you cannot convict donald trump based on the say so of a liar and allen weisselberg, who is missing. that is the defense. it has to be because allen weisselberg's handwriting is all over this case. they've got to say this was the two of them working together. one of them is a liar, he lied to you, and the other is missing. >> as -- in addition to painting him as a liar they also painted him as unhinged. let's listen. >> i truly [ bleep ] hope this man ends up in prison. it won't bring back the year i lost or the damage done to my family, but revenge is a dish best served cold and i want this man to go down and rot inside for what he did to me and my

family. >> is that effective? >> i do think it was effective, actually. i agree with everything that duncan said. i think it was effective because first of all i think it was the defense's best day over the course of the whole trial so far. it is very possible that todd blanche succeeded in creating reasonable doubt in at least one juror's mind. the thing about playing his unhinged commentary is that is also, if i am the defense, another lie i'm going to tie up in closing. i will say this man's choirboy act, when he was on the stand earlier this week, acting polite and sincere, that was another fraud. that was another, different michael cohen, lying to you and presenting himself as someone he was not and is the defense will argue, a series of lies. let me add one last thing. the line that has been offered so frequently from prosecutors and folks in the media that michael cohen has been fully

corroborated is not true and we learned that today because of the call that he had with keith schiller. in one sense that is corroborated by the call records because we know the call occurred. it is not corroborated in the sense that we don't know what happened during that call unless we take michael cohen's word for it. so i think this has always been the risk in this case, that this day would come when there would be a very aggressive cross-examination that would swing the needle. we will find out in a matter of days, maybe weeks, if that will come true, but this was sort of inevitable, a day like this. >> now we have a couple of days to think about this. ankush khardori and duncan levin, thank you for your time. we have more special coverage of donald trump's hush money trial after the break. e break.

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that is our show for tonight. now it is time for "the last word with lawrence o'donnell."