♪ welcome back to our special coverage of the first ever criminal trial of a former

president. i'm alex wagner here with my colleague, chris hayes, who was in the courtroom today, as former trump attorney and fixer, michael cohen took the stand for a second day in a row. today the defense began its cross-examination, which did not start off that well. here is trump attorney todd blanche. mr. cohen, my name is todd blanche. you and i have never spoken or met before have we? michael cohen, we have not. mr. blanche, but you know who i am, don't you? cohen, i do. mr. blanche, as a matter of fact, you went on tiktok and called me a crying little-- this is a euphemism here-- poop- - didn't you? cohen, that's probably something i would say. judge merchan called lawyers to a sidebar, the official court transcript tells us what went down. here is the court.

judge mershon, why are you making us about yourself mark easter blanche, i'm not making this about myself your honor, i have a right to show this witness's bias, and he has expressed bias about the lawyers, just on who he represents. the court, it doesn't matter if he has bias towards you, it doesn't matter. the issue is whether he has bias toward the defendant. don't make it about yourself. i'm going to sustain the objection and instruct the jury, please don't make it about yourself through the cross-examination did not get much better from there. during roughly two hours of questioning, trump attorney todd blanche painted for the jury several conflicting profiles of michael cohen, and why he was testifying against donald trump. there was michael cohen, the unreliable narrator, who would lie about anything. then there was michael cohen the jolted surrogate son, trying to get back at his father figure. there was also michael cohen the disparate prisoner, who would say anything to get out of jail, and then there was michael cohen, the greedy self-

promoter, trying to cash in on trying to turn on trump. what we did not get from the defense however, was a coherent narrative that explained why the jury should believe that donald trump is not guilty. i was-- stunned by the lack of effort put towards actually dismantling a legal argument about potential felonies. >> yeah, and it did move around a tremendous amount. it had conflicting theories, which, if you are trying to rough him up okay fine. but, there was one point where they spent all this time, i mean, a lot of time on the fact that michael cohen keeps talking about the case, even though everyone involved in the case, the prosecutors office is like for the love of god, michael cohen, stfu. >> right. >> they were trying to say look , this guy was not listening, he goes rogue and does his own thing. i guess. >> [ laughter ] >>: doesn't work for the das office.

it's not the relationship with the das office that you have with donald trump-- >> paying off a pornstar just because he is a rogue operator. >> exactly. may build something, but this is a guy who does his own thing, and you cannot tell him what to do. it never went anywhere. there's a lot of increase that felt like it started but never culminated. that was my feeling just sitting watching in real time, where i would even be-- they would get me, the rhythm where you are asking questions, and cohen is saying yes, boom-boom, like okay. >> we are going places. >> then it is like-- it would sputter out, and they would move to another topic. there were moments where he felt squarely. there was never any really satisfying narrative catharsis, in which i felt like he's caught in a lie, or he is-- oh,

well, i hadn't thought of it that way. there was no lightbulb. >> two of the people on the set i am sure have a lot of thoughts about the defense. msnbc chief legal correspondent, ari melber, and katie feng of the katie feng show. from a legal perspective, guys, at some.does the defense not need to address this idea that yes there was records manipulation, and the step up charge to get this to a felony, campaign-finance violation of some sort. that was never, in the actual criminal charges at the heart of this. we are not seeing that addressed by the defense team during this cross-examination. cohen is the witness, who they can go out on that. >> i think they are doing cross on him, and when it's their turn they decide whether they will put up their case or not. it can say the prosecutors can prove it. today, it was about showing the

jury what they think are the worst of michael cohen. i don't think they had him knock out, i don't think they had a knockout blow, but i think they got a few more blows and jabs in there than against daniels, or pecker. if you compare it to how this trial has been going, and i was in there this afternoon, so i was watching the jury, it looked like a tennis match, between cohen and blanche. it's true, there was never a knockout. but what i kind of observed, it is if you are looking at jurors who were riveted, and then you see, blanche says but you wrote in your book you are obsessed with trump.

he says oh, maybe i said that. and then he says oh, you are monetizing this? you've lied to investigators before? it wasn't a great picture, though i don't think it dissolved everything he said. >> that, before i go to katie, that point is important. i think for me, and i know a lot about michael cohen. it's like if you tell me michael cohen has made millions of dollars off of an anti-trump book, it's like of course. he is selling anti-trump merch. that's making sense. to the jury, it may be like oh, he's grinding an ax. >> birds of a feather, right? >> that's very much the theme over the past two days. >> giraffes mary giraffes, there's a reason why donald trump used michael cohen. are you baffled by that one? >> just processing it. >> but, there's a reason why donald trump loved using michael cohen. because he was effective for what michael cohen needed to do

for donald trump, and that's the reason why he jettisoned him when he went to the white house, because he no longer could use michael cohen in the capacity. but, when it comes to cross- examination, it's not direct. you won't necessarily have a through-line, nor are you necessarily going to have a chronology being followed, per se. you will want to hit specific areas, but what was so odd about blanche today is you got so disjointed following it that you didn't understand that the zingers were hitting, to ari's point. we talked about the low information juror, you don't have the breadth of information as we do as we live in this space-- you are taking it in but not understanding the importance of it-- but, simultaneously, because the trump has a larger than life presence, trump is the ultimate selling merch grifter. so, it's not like you're appalled when you hear somebody has successfully taken that

model and is taking money. are you supposed to begrudge michael cohen, because he's been disbarred, because he went to prison, that he's making money off of it? they are all doing it. you're never going to get a clean person at this. everybody has dirty hands. >> to that point, ari, they built scaffolding around michael cohen before they brought him out. we began with david pecker, stormy daniels, witnesses corroborating the fact that michael cohen-- he is the last witness we are told, from the prosecution. >> i think that is smart and made sense, but my observation is also, today is a reminder of why they saved him for last. >> yeah. >> they had a sense as the questions-- gestured towards-- how unreliable he is. he was basically defying their requests. that doesn't mean he is lying, but it certainly leaves the jury saying, well, even now at the trial in the last few weeks

the questions suggest he wouldn't follow the rules. and, again i'm not saying-- it breaks the case-- but, if one or more jurors think i have reasonable doubt as to this guy who doesn't have enough respect for the system and the rules, maybe he's playing with the timeline. maybe he is playing with his accounting of trump's intent, because again, the records case has been established. it is what we call documented, signed checks by donald trump. but, the intent has to be that trump had the criminal intent to do it then, not as reimbursement afterword or some later date, and cohen is key to that. if you want your jury to believe beyond reasonable doubt that trump did it for the campaign, and that trump had that requisite criminal intent, which trump didn't write down, you need cohen or someone else to get you there. >> how meaningful is it allen weisselberg won't testify in this? trump is the only the person of

that potential-- >> and he's not going to take the stand, so the evidence stands. to ari's point what the jury did today, though, if michael cohen gets a search warrant executed on his home, and stuff gets taken from his home and law firm, right? why are you scrambling if you are trump to make sure that michael cohen, it's okay, i'm going to take care of you, and then you look at costello, sleep well tonight, because you have friends in high places, why are you trying so hard to protect michael cohen, unless he is a critical part of a conspiracy, or something you've done wrong, you want to keep him quiet and keep him close, because you want to know if he's going to flip, and the jury heard that. >> one thing that also, to your point about the criminal intent, which is that this underlying crime is this intent to commit essentially an election crime-- there have been a few moments from this trial where, the presence of

that is in the ether as people are discussing it. david pecker, i thought that testimony said it-- for all lawyer waiving the off of this deal precisely because we thought we were going to follow. testimony from cohen communicating, i believe communicating with trump about what he was telling the fec, like we have this complaint-- donald trump had nothing to do with it, right? >> then trump says, that's good. >> exactly, he says that's good. again, that is michael cohen's testimony. you have to believe cohen is telling the truth and not just doing it, because , but again, there is this consciousness of guilt sort of that lit up. >> i think they've done a good job showing the consciousness across the other witnesses. anything they have, a document and two witnesses on, is pretty sturdy. >> yeah. >> and you imagine, we don't

always know, but where one juror says yeah, i don't know if i believe cohen, and they've been following this, but remember that pecker said that, and later they will request the transcript. so again, it goes back to today and thursday, and they said we have no witnesses left, so we are in it. does it add enough questions that one or mergers has that doubt that they can't get over a reasonable doubt as to this because of an element of the crime, like a checklist, you know? the intent-- >> that relies on him. >> that relies on his account. they asked questions where they said, you have such a good memory about what allegedly happened, but now you can't remember what happened last year. that's pretty standard. but, again-- >> i am yawning. like that's--

>> i think you were yawning to that question that we've heard before. we will regroup at tables like this pretty soon. and, if we have a hung jury, this is probably, i don't think it's because they borderline harassed stormy daniels on the stand, i don't think it's because david pecker says he still likes trump-- >> because of michael cohen. okay. we will try and travel into the future. katie and ari, thank you. we will take you outside the courtroom in trump's criminal trial where supporters . i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. some people say, "why should i take prevagen? i don't have a problem with my memory." memory loss is, is not something that occurs overnight. i started noticing subtle lapses in memory. i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. it's helped my memory. it's helped my cognitive qualities.

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the line to get into the courtroom today started forming last night. people camped out with sleeping bags and pillows. one woman told the new york times she paid $750 for someone to hold a space in line for her. another man reportedly sold his spot in line for $2000. but, as much as it seats inside the courtroom or the hottest ticket in town, the real circus today was outside the courtroom , where first republican speaker of the house, mike johnson, and a gaggle of trump 's vice presidential hopefuls all held press conferences, defending trump, attacking the trial, and counterprogramming what was going on inside that courtroom. michelle goldberg

opinion columnist and new york times, and andrew rice, with new york magazine, michelle, and andrew, thank you for joining us as we dissect what happens. your thoughts on the group text as they coordinated their outfits? >> [ laughter ] they must have been disappointed that trump had a yellow tie. they got the wrong message. i mean, the thing i was glad that they were all in the courtroom today, i mean, i wonder if at any point they had a flicker of recognition that this was a trial, a day in the trial, that was all about what excessive loyalty donald trump gets you. >> a sense of irony? >> i don't know if some of them are capable of it, but there was a point at the very end of his testimony, when michael cohen talked about his regrets, and how he had, out of loyalty to donald trump he had betrayed his own moral compass, and at

great cost to himself and his family, and i wonder if there was even a flicker and mike johnson's mind about what he was doing at that very moment. >> i don't know. i don't know if anybody knows the answer, including mike johnson. andrew, i was struck by the fact , that these individuals showed up today, because in trump's mind, this is all politics. this is auditioning, this is about how he can milk this for damping contributions. this is what it does for his standing, and you write, before coming into court, in the morning, yesterday, trump waived the times story with this poll showing him being ahead, saying it shows us leading everywhere by a lot. let the star witness testified, trump seemed to be testifying, that he's winning. >> i doubt it. the, i think the interesting thing that's going on in the courtroom, as you see these

people, as you say, coming in to pay homage to trump sitting quietly and listening to this incredible damning testimony and drawing conclusions that are may be different from of the jury is drawing. but, the most interesting thing about mike johnson, you know, he didn't even come into the courtroom. he was in there for minute and came out and decried the witchhunt that was going on inside. he didn't get there. he didn't check his cell phone. >> there's another aspect to this, which, i found it both focus and pathetic in equal measure, but there's another aspect to this, which is donald trump has a gag order, that prohibits him from making certain statements. he wants to still make those statements, so he's getting other people, who are not subject to the gag order, to come and make those statements.

and it is like i'm not touching you, i'm not touching you, it really is that, every day, because they come out and say things that are obviously-- i'm not saying, like, copying and pasting directly, but people know what donald trump wants to hear. they echo the lines of attack that are things that he cannot say. >> and specifically lines of attack directed at the judge's daughter, which is a hobbyhorse of donald trump's we have a little bit of sound, let's play it. >> the judge inside, his daughter is making millions of dollars running against donald trump, raising money for donald trump office political opponents. >> you have relatives of the judge who are benefiting financially. expect the only thing being done is by this judge, his daughter is making money, raising money for democrats? >> the real book keeping we need accountant of is judge merchan's on family member collecting millions of dollars

as a democratic operative. >> the judge's own daughter is making millions of dollars doing online fundraising for democrats. they are using this trial as a hook, it's so corrupt, and everyone knows it. >> mike, vivek, you got the note about the judge's daughter-- they are even trying to hide what they are doing. >> looking over trump's shoulder, and he's reading the quotes that these individuals, and going through and making notations with a pin on the paper-- while testimony was going on, while michael cohen was testifying against him, he was going through and annotating and editing the quotes that these people were giving. >> in addition to being humiliatingly transparent, there's a question about whether this is legal. part of the gag order is you cannot direct others to violate the gag order, which is clearly what is happening here. >> right, it is like he gets

hit for retweeting, so he gets people to come in and read the tweets. >> reading the retweets, that's it. >> they were saying i am here to help, i am breaking the gag order, i am trying to get around the gag order. and, i don't know if there is even a body of law that addresses this, because it seems so outside the norm. >> i am no legal expert but it's difficult to prove, and also, like, what leverage does judge merchan have over byron, donald's, and vivek ramaswamy. but perhaps they would be less trepidations about breaking the law. >> i think there is a sort of testing the limit ethos that has taken over. but, interestingly, they said the same thing, like he was a friend. and was interesting about that is he doesn't have friends,

because his friends, vivek ramaswamy, but think about, put yourself in the position you find your self. you are facing criminal trial in a new york court. like, i would hope i would have support. it would be a vulnerable moment, and it would mean a lot to have my actual friends and family. he does not have that there. by and large there has not been family, and i don't think the man has friends in the way we understand it. so, instead, this weird friendship is being provided by vanquished primary contestants-- boy, did i miss the voice of vivek ramaswamy. >> there's the legal audience, and to some degree, there is

the right wing echo chamber. and i wonder, michelle, the utility of having this parade of contestants show up and say the same thing about the judge and his daughter being corrupt-- >> and the jury, at one point tubberville said-- >> presumable citizens. >> just throw in illegal immigration to stoke the fire of the base-- regardless of the fact it's not based in fact the repetition over and over again has come up in the past. >> if he gets a guilty verdict, to invalidated in the minds of his followers and maybe the people who told pollsters if he was convicted of a felony, it's a way to neutralize that, and maybe even turn it into an advantage among people, who either like trump's gangster persona, or seeing him as a

martyr for their grievances. >> in the meantime, the guys that auditioned today, enter, did any of them strike you as more effective? >> within the courtroom, none of them struck me as anything, because they were really just potted plants playing on their phone, live tweeting while it was going on. but, really, it's a kind of ultimate show of loyalty during this boring testimony about checks and so on, and to spend your entire day doing that, and then deliver a speech, with the exception of vivek ramaswamy, these are all elected officeholders who presumably have better things they could be doing to serve the american people. >> vivek ramaswamy is a little unclear, but yeah. >> the speaker of the house has things to do, maybe. thank you on your time tonight, guys.

we have much more, including how the prosecution got to the crux of its case today, getting michael cohen to confirm the checks and business records trump used to repay him were falsified. that is next. ♪ next. ♪ because we aren't quitters. impossible. we're solving the meat problem with more meat. ♪ limu emu... ♪ and doug. (bell ringing) limu, someone needs to customize and save hundreds on car insurance with liberty mutual. let's fly! (inaudible sounds) chief! doug. (inaudible sounds)

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today, the prosecution question about invoices and checks towards cohen to jump off his culpability.

then send them to the trump organization and in return, cohen received falsified checks from trump himself. all to hide the hush money payments to stormy daniels. here is prosecutor susan huff injure. michael cohen, yes, ma'am. the description of pursuant to a retainer agreement, was that a truthful statement? cohen, no ma'am. was the description on this check stub false? cohen yes, ma'am . hoffinger do you recognize the signature? uses it whose is it? cohen, donald trump . andrea, renowned journalist, i thought we have spent a lot of time talking about the cross, but the direct examination of michael cohen i believe has some of the most important evidence, if not the most important evidence we have seen

on this trial to date. >> he has sewn up these loose pieces and explaining the back story, like the tape of him speaking to trump and the way the whole document came together, which is the bank statement with the scrawled handwriting about how much they will reimburse him, and he said clearly yesterday, that it was trump and allen weisselberg, the cfo, who put it together and brought him in and ratified it. but, today we had cohen going through what you just read 11 times, there were 11 payments, and then capping it off by talking about a visit to the white house, were trump says to him, don't worry, michael, your checks are coming soon, it takes a while back to get checks fed next fedex from the

white house. and we saw an appointment with cohen on his calendar. and we saw a picture of cohen in the white house. so all of these things, these bits and pieces we have seen of corroboration, he is saying here i was, here's what happened. >> quite literally the receipts. we talk a lot about how credible michael cohen is as a witness. when you, when the hard data truly matters here, chris, and i wonder as you were in the courtroom, how the jury reacted. >> it was an interesting point in the trial. there was a long period in which they are going through each invoice. so there are 11 instances of the crime, which are the falsified records. because, they include a stub with the ledger from the pay entity, which is saying this is for a retainer, was it a retainer, so, at one level, you knew it the next 10 were. so, it also just hammered home the fact that, like, this is what the crime is. this is the actual crime, this

is it, the crime has been committed. and throughout the trial today i found the jury very attentive, and that part was, it was interesting, because it was methodical and slow to go through all 11. >> do you think, andrea, that the defense was successful in repainting cohen? >> there was this emotional high point where cohen is talking about, it's after the presidential election. he's basically thrown away by trump. his bonus has been cut, he's not getting a job in washington, he's basically been told, don't come near me, in effect. and he's still trying to protect trump by lying to congress about the construction or proposal to construct a trump tower, or misleading about payments, lying to reporters so

he's doing all this stuff, and he talks about how then-trump says to him after he is rated by the fbi, don't worry, michael, i have your back, but he doesn't have his back. so the defense coming into say don't you just want revenge? there is an emotional predicate for cohen to yes, be upset, because he did all these things for trump, and trump has not paid him back. that's a tough argument to make. it is the second time they've made it, they said the same thing with stormy daniels, so the sting of that has gone out of it. we've heard that before. when are you going to get to the checks? maybe thursday. >> the other thing on that series where they are showing the checks is that the light is that it's a retainer, because he's doing legal services.they asked, if they were legal services, he said no.

whew very little things came up on cross, but what's interesting about that too, is you have the paystub there. he's not doing a ton of legal work for him. everything has documented who was in his circle. the $35,000 times the amount adds up to what we all heard, like, it all adds up. >> andrea, because you have been following this so closely, the prosecution's bar is much higher than the defense's bar, and we talked about the faults of the defense, how scattered it seemed. they just need one juror. and i wonder as we sit here, this is the last witness that will be called according to the prosecution, as you look at the strategies on display here, whether you think it is asymmetrical, or whether we are overstating the efficacy of the prosecution. >> i mean, it's impossible to second-guess that, right? for example, when cohen was

telling this story of betrayal today, he was speaking directly to the jurors, and they were looking straight at him. that went on for while, it was a moment of emotional attention on their part. and i think that one of the things that's hard here is i have covered michael cohen a long time. michael cohen has lied and lied, but that doesn't mean he never tells the truth. >> exactly. >> that is what the prosecution has to sort out, and it's hard to just say, you are a liar, don't believe anything. maybe one juror will believe that, and there will be a hung trial. but, it's a high bar when you have this evidence, and this corroboration of documents and people, who worked for trump, and worked for him, as of tonight. >> and presumed themselves to remain in his good graces. andrea bernstein thank you.

our primetime recap of the only criminal trial-- the only one in the history of a former american president continues right after the break. break. sometimes your work shirt needs to be for more than just work. like when it needs to be a big, soft shoulder to cry on. which is why downy does more to make clothes softer, fresher, and better. downy. breathe life into your laundry.

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weeks. i call it the icebox. we call it the icebox. >> i was sweating in there today, i'm not going to lie. maybe we just run hotter. prosecutors told the court cohen is their last witness. christian greenberg, deputy chief of the criminal division for the southern district of new york, senior staffer in the manhattan district attorney's office, now criminal defense attorney, great to have you both here. let's talk a little bit about timing and where we are in the case. kristi, i'll start with you. b we anticipated michael cohen to be the last witness. that was disclosed i think in a sidebar. todd blanche, i believe, today, said he will take all of thursday for the rest of his cross right? >> yes. >> so then what happens after that? >> so after that, i think at

that point the prosecution will rest. >> they said maybe they would call a witness depending on jury instructions? >> yeah, it wasn't clear. i thought where they landed is that they were ending with cohen. and at that point i anticipate they will say we regressed, the defense we will say we are moving for an acquittal and are coming up with all the problems they have found in the trial thus far. the judge will deny that-- >> moving for the judge to issue an acquittal. >> yes. they have not been close to the burden of proof. there are various issues that have come up in the case that are problematic, this should be dismissed. the judge will deny it. then we will get to summation. >> what would you anticipate the summations being for a length of a trial like this? >> there is a lot for both sides to work with, here. the prosecution will be trying

to put together all of the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle, and the defense, which is really going to be picking at michael cohen and allen weisselberg, we've seen the evidence before they put up their case through the questioning of the witnesses. clearly what they are trying to establish is that i allen weisselberg, former cfo of trump organization, and michael cohen, acted alone. they have got to deal with the facts. if allen weisselberg's handing, they have to be picking this apart, and the prosecution will be talking about the ways in the ways the pieces fit together. >> duncan, they haven't laid any of that groundwork, really sufficiently, i would think the defense, in terms of saying donald trump was in that involved in this, it has sort of thrown a dart in it.

>> in fairness, they haven't put their case on yet, but they are getting one chance at a main witness at this. michael cohen's testimony was really devastating for them in two ways, one, had to do with the case. with three simple words, saying he authorized this, he put donald trump right at the center of this reimbursement scheme. and, he turned what is a circumstantial case where the prosecution without michael cohen would stand up and say do you believe this pennypinching guy who is negotiating everything down to the paperclip assigning $35,000 checks and doesn't know what it is? do you believe that, ladies and gentlemen, to a direct evidence case where he is saying donald trump authorized this. so with those words it's sort of a nail in the coffin. but predator. even with stormy daniels'

testimony he is sitting there in his silk robe like he has hugh hefner and she talked about shaking while she put on her shoes and he comes off as a predator. michael cohen's testimony comes off as a dog, as a criminal. michael cohen called as his home was being raided by the fbi. he called donald trump and donald trump says i'm the t president of the united states, don't worry about it. the fbi works for me. this was out of a mafia start of book, so it is devastating in those ways. >> i'm trying not to succumb to groupthink about the cross because i was in there and i found it not that great. there were moments where cohen seemed on his heels or squarely or evasive . they definitely pointed out inconsistencies, but i had a hard time following it. where is this going and what will this add up to? they are going to have another

day of cross. if you were in the room with todd blanche, who i believe you worked with -- >> i did. >> what's the game plan here? what do you think there should be more of? >> first, start by attacking his credibility. start by pointing out the fact he has lied. the prosecutors did that on direct. that is a technique and they did it, but when they went through his plea of what he did, it was very brief. >> the prosecutors. >> you pled guilty to five counts of tax fraud. let's go through what you actually did that made you guilty and the varying stories that you have had about whether or not you actually did it. this wasn't about necessarily how he feels about it, it is what did you do? he is all over the place

including today. he said as for the tax crimes, i never denied the fact of it. i never denied that i did it, they just shouldn't of brought j the case. >> materiality is the word he kept using. >> material they should not of brought either. this is prosecutors trying to threaten me and go after my wife and again i know those prosecutors. it is a high-profile case. that does not comport with my experience and how things work n and how those prosecutors and particularly work. cohen has denied he committed n tax evasion even though he pled guilty to it, so really try to tease out these inconsistencies. the consistencies today doesn't matter and nobody cares, like the first question out of the gate and whether or not you said something nasty about todd in blanche. do you have that thin of skin?

the judge calling you to a sidebar after your first question and saying why are you making this about you? it is bias against the defendant, not you. for a defense attorney this is a dream cross. there is so much material. go for the things that matter. i would say credibility first and then the other piece is if the theory of the cases these checks were for legal work, ks maybe show us what the legal al work was. >> yes. briefly in rebuttal -- >> very briefly and they anticipated this again. take us through what was $35,000 a month, because what we saw was an email from michael cohen that said how much was the amount again? oh no, we are building to the six minute increment of everything we've done and

donald trump cares about looking at those kinds of things and none of that exists. if you have a theory that is different, show us what that is. >> great to have you both. thank you both for coming. all right, we will be right back with much more of our coverage of the first-ever criminal trial of a former president. >> tech: need to get your windshield fixed? safelite makes it easy. you can schedule in just a few clicks. and we'll come to you with a replacement you can trust. >> vo: schedule free mobile service now at safelite.com. ♪ safelite repair, safelite replace. ♪

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there is no trial tomorrow, but there is more trial on thursday. it could be the last day of

testimony, depending on whether the prosecution does redirect after cross-examination. do you have any expectations here? >> well, it is wild to conceive of the fact that this could go to the jury next week and i think part of why that is so wild to conceive of is he has been so successful in playing the delay game with all of these other cases and there is always the sense that there is never going to be in accounting. he is sort of wriggling out of this one and wriggling out of that one and this is an act committed in 2016 and 2017. we are finally getting to it in 2024. it is striking to imagine that there might be a moment next week where there is a jury reading a verdict in a room for donald trump, which still seems to me -- >> abstract. >> i will believe it when i see it, because thus far the record has been pretty good at avoiding serious accountability. >> i think along the way it has

become quite evident to the laypeople that donald trump is involved in the defense. the character examination and even the lines the defense uses. the kinds of things that donald trump would be sang behind-the- scenes and it is impossible for me to imagine that the next 20 to 36 hours donald trump is not going to be saying more. my heart goes out to those individuals who are managing one of the most unwieldy clients in america. >> the owner calling the dugout with some thoughts on which pitcher should come in. >> just a couple of thoughts. we believe it there. that will do it for us now. don't go anywhere. our coverage continues with "the last word with lawrence o'donnell." >> one of my first guests tonight predicted to me, in the courtroom, just before cross- examination started, that donald trump's defense lawyer,