a little surprised. hi, irish, and i'm ready to dive into the hands of human to us. you have you have a one, the front porch response and the unexpected side to side as the boring ukraine grimes on the neighboring voltage states. what's anxiously from the ring side seat, pressing the west to increase a to kill, and make sure russia dozens with my guess this week is the last to be as 5 minutes to kristy on these kinds. and he's clear nato a set up. it's good. the difficulty in the frustration that i feel is that as we are going step by step, russia is going full, ronald suppose. so. how ready is nato to take on an expansion? is russia? why are some rich european states still i'm willing to meet the alliances defense spending targets and was present the macro really calling his allies cohen,

congress cuttings. welcome to come pick tone. thank you very much. great to be here . your prime minister was just in the us recently trying to persuade congress to unblock the military assistance with the white house of promise to ukraine. she made the point of several times, russia must not be allowed to win this war. if russia does win the war, it will be down to the hesitation and refusal of the west to give it the weapons it needs to when it was the idea of sunk in yet in the west as well. uh, i think it, i think it is, and if, if we look uh, not on the other side of the atlantic that on what is happening in europe. uh, so in europe, uh, when the world was starting, there was just a small handful of countries that were providing arms to print the baltics of poland. others were in the beginning, more hesitant. now we see that there was

a full scroll to the support of 40 of crane. we just the, in the european union voted 50000000000 and a green, 50000000000 over 4 years that will support the government. we have the check initiative to get ammunition also outside of european union. we have seen that, for example, germany has gone almost 180 degrees from a very pacifist stands for, for obvious historical reasons to actually being the largest supporter of ukraine now. and now we see the french president coming with an initiative to, you can read it many ways, but as a, as, as alexia and foreign minister, i read it, rather simply that the french also understands that not only ukraine has to win, but russia has to lose the war, otherwise it's, it's a, it's a big security threat for all of europe. i'm one of russia does when, and what i think, what is the assistance is

a little too late to little and too late? well, i think right now we have to focus on what we can do. so that does not happen because if they were to, when they will have learned the less than that might makes, right? they will have assume that the west is, is, is somehow weak or divided or unwilling to stand up against him. and that aggression will continue in one direction or another. so in order for that aggression not to go on because of the problem, we won't go away. russia will be aggressive at the end of the war, even if they lose the war. because put, than just secured. another 6 years for himself, that means their policies will remain unchanged. and i think this is a big wake up call for all of us that and in the sense, the lack of the vote in us congress for the $60000000000.00 support package for you . train is a wake up call to us here in europe that we have to get our military industry up to

par. we have to make sure that we are investing in our own defense, and we have to make sure that we have a large enough and capable enough of armies and military's a to stand up for to any threats so that that threats never materialize. this and that is called the current status with nato is all about. and within nato there's uh, the united states. but there are also a $31.00 other countries, including all of us here in europe. and we have to do our share as well. yes. uh, some of the country is of course, haven't been doing their share and i want to come onto back to them in a minute. you talked about germany turning a 180 degrees from his previous thoughts. what do you think of germany's refusal to provide long range taurus, missiles to ukraine of course says it's a lot been politician. i agree with those that it would be certainly beneficial to the training efforts if they had a these missiles at the same time, i have to say that unfortunately, the discussion about the part of the missiles,

a clouds over the, the sheer fact of the volume of a, the germany is actually giving, and it's rather unfortunate that because of the house you say, a debate over one part of the age, it's overshadowing everything that germany is doing. so from a public relations point of view, it's too bad that this is distracting from actually the big story of germany. support has an issue i'm going to, i'm sorry to interrupt you, but hasn't, hasn't germany and the west as well. being far too scared about most goes rhetoric, it's nuclear, are talking about is nuclear arsenal. do you worry that the alliance looks weak to russia? um, well the alliance is growing. uh, thanks to russia. we have no finland and sweden, uh, in the alliance. uh, thanks to rushes aggression in europe as we see in germany. elsewhere, governments are actually quite massively stepping up investments in their own

defense thanks to russia's war in ukraine. our defense interest, the, all those slope is making the investments now and where we are behind the russian curve because they knew they were going to weather on the work for they were getting there a so i'm inside nato is on the low 50 foot thing or should be on a war footing. it is moving in that direction. now we in the baltics and then last year from, for 2 years, even before, before this, this outbreak were started, we were arguing that russia is a real security threat. a russia is, is a challenge to all of us. and for many years, we were told by many of our good friends and colleagues and allies that maybe were a little bit alarmist. it turns out, unfortunately, that we were right. i, i wish i was wrong in this regard and it is taken. so in the baltics it was, we never had any doubts about this. so we reacted very quickly. and then some other

societies, the reaction has been slower. the extra reaction has been changed with a certain fear or pressure, and we, in the baltics have continually said, there's nothing to fear in a sense, but fear itself by russia understands power. if we are strong, russia will never attack. and if we are strong, russia will lose in ukraine as well. you said in january, russia will not stop. russia can only be stopped. stopping in. russia does not mean that it's over. it simply means we will have to continue. are you saying that you have evidence? russia could, intends to invade and seize of a southern states of the southern countries in europe, but no a. but if we read in the public sphere, everything that pretend has been saying his speech is the philosophies the doctrines of they are on an aggressive imperialistic direction. and this will not change uh, because of the ukraine. although the success of that is what we have to change,

but even after the end of this work, what i'm arguing that we in nato will have to have a many. or i would say, in order to understand the scope a 20 year containment and deterrence efforts to make sure that the rushes aggression never materializes. that is their internal wishes to somehow expand or intimidate neighbors. you're being a neighbor simply could never materialize because we are still visibly strong and we are getting there. we have going it to the the of the it has forward presence. also, the german, the german presence in between is the canadians. and in last year, the brits in estonia and many other allies as well. we already have a much more robust presence. they've been, we did 2 years ago. yes. not minister use it use you say that, but we talked about the 60000000000 usa package that hasn't come through for ukraine. so i would ask whether europe can rectify the that enormous shortfall and its own defense spending. nato's european members need to stump up

another 56000000000 euros a year just to meet the alliances defense spending target. so that current defense spending targets and there's no sign that they're going to do that is that it's an expense belgium. then the wendy of the target of 2 percent of g d p all day that the nato requires fact to is if the west is serious about you, crazy wanting to wait and then it's time to west up to its game, isn't it? and i, i agree, it is time to the west up its game and it is happening from alaska in perspective. i think for me, ukrainians perspective, it's happening rather slow. uh, but it is happening. this is why we are continuing, not only to argue, but we put our money where our mouth, so we are moving up to 3 percent of a g, d p on defense spending, we've reintroduced the draft for buying new defensive weapon systems. and we are continuing to provide aid on

a regular basis to ukraine. we're participating in the check initiative to buy a broad ammunition. so we are, we are doing everything that we think all allies could do. and it looks like, according to estimates that i have seen, that before they tell us, or for europe, i should say to be able to, to, to fully, but mostly a, to fund its own defense. if it needs within nato, the number of would not be a 2 percent of g. d. p will be closer to 3 percent of g d p. if we all spent this and all of us spent this, we might have some apple supplies for ourselves and for your brain that's, that's a big if, isn't it? because polls conducted by nato show pretty low levels of support for increasing defense spending. and that's in some of the member countries with the biggest shortfalls, like it's only only 28 percent of people in that country wants to spend more on defense. if you don't get the money for this. none of these grand plans and none of

the promises that were initially made to ukraine are going to be met, solve a to well i, i agree, is that not everyone is there, but if we look, turn back the clock 2 years. uh, the number of countries not meeting 2 percent, which much greater, that number is decreasing. and if we also look at the countries that you mentioned, a defense spending is going up. we once that curb to go up faster and this is the difference between also various politicians. politicians can take the stance of looking at public opinion and following public opinion or what i think what is needed that this if this time are politicians who argue uh to the electorate. what it is that we have to do, what is the right thing to do, and to make the policy happen? and the good news is that sense of urgency is expanding in europe. we see the costs and initiative is actually adjusting this thing. it needs to go further,

but it is, we are certainly much, much further down the road. then we were a 2 years ago. nato is already more capable. it has 2 additional countries in the alliance. and even in the european union, it took us a little while to agree on the 50000000000 assistance for ukraine, but we did it. but as things stand, unless that money is forthcoming, nato and the european union are going to be guilty once again of over promising and on the delivery. and that's, and that's a bad reputation taps. let me ask you this. if you were a foreign minister of ukraine at the moment, how satisfied would you be with nato? those are the contributions over the last couple of years. how satisfied would you be? well, i made with my good friend, mr. cole up on a regular basis, and of course, she feels and, and very rightly so that we need to step up the efforts. and we,

in lots of fully agree with him. and we are not only arguing how should we say that you should do it, not us. we are trying to also lead by example, more than one percent of g. d. p has gone out to a to ukraine. so far, we're continuing the effort. of course, they need weapons and ammunition. they don't need promises, and it's very concrete what they need. and we have a very concrete initiative now headed by the checks they have found the munition. now it's up to the rest of us to help fund and pay the money to buy the ammunition and to physically deliver it to ukraine. let's talk about the nature of strategy and nature plans um, just 2 years ago. your name, but it's totally a complain, bitterly that nato's plan for its defense was wholly inadequate because it involved allowing a potential russian to advance into the country with the aim of pushing it back. 6 months later on those plans, the progress, the said estonia would be wiped off the map and the historic center of the capitol

raised to the ground, is not the kind of plan nato device. so a lot fear as well. and um, let's look at the plans that we adopted the last summer in vegas. uh, these are new plans. uh, they are now being uh, implemented also in terms of the training, the largest natural military exercises a to date which is under this on the ground wasn't fit for purpose. was it the, the old plan was based on a different world, which is a world where there is not we're in ukraine. the new plan is based on the reality that russia is not only a theoretical but, but a very real threat. and the plans have been adopted, but nature was supposed to prepare for war. it wasn't supposed it's not bad for peace. time is not there for decoration. is it? uh no, it's not. and if you remember, it was just a few years ago that the french president even said that nato was brain dead. i think that was the term that he used, but things change and with

a change who is brought about the change is a mr. put in and the russian one machine and that the difficulty and i, i could spend all of my time as the luck in 5 minutes start complaining about what we have not done. but i also have to acknowledge that it incredible amount has been done. we simply need to continue and to do more in the direction is very, very positive. again, if we take a look at germany, germany crates, it's a 100000000000 euro, a defense fund, which is now being implemented as germany builds up its armed forces. this is very, very good for all of nato, and this is what we need. so it's the step by step pledges and realization. the difficulty in the frustration that i feel is that as we are going step by step, russia is going full frontal forward. and there's this balance between the policy of russia and the democracy of nato. and what we have to realize is that we need to

move it into the next year. we're in 2nd gear. we need to get to 4. and that the fiscal year ukraine can when this war is rushed, is also given the tools to win it a buffet with about 20. it's justified and, and having it spouts, minutes. but there's a lot of talk about nato security guarantee to its members. but these on cost on guarantees of a doesn't mean that nato troops, when the means of a rush into battle against anyone threatening a member country, does it? how safe do you feel? how safe those lots, via feel? with this famous article 5 treaty on the books, we feel very safe. and what has to be remembered that in lafayette, as in the baltics estimated tire is to fling at theoretically, if an attack were to happen, nato troops wouldn't have to rush in. they're all over the here. they're here on a daily basis it's,

it's physically impossible and very small numbers in very small numbers. it's physically impossible to attack any of the baltic countries without attacking other countries. nato soldiers at the same time. and that, that is that, but in and of itself is part of the turns. and those numbers you say are small, but 5 years ago they were much smaller. so the numbers are actually increasing and the canadian, a government, which is heading the, the, the nato efforts in last year has placed also budgets, already money. so very real money a to move up to a full brigade, and you can say, well, there's one brigade is 10 brigades. this is the question for the, for the military people, i'm a politician. but the, the ramping up is very, very visible surface. logical 5 is, is a guarantee for all member states is i would ask you whether you think that the u. s. is the lead nation and nato would go to boss, say, for the sake of albania, or north of macedonia or o slovenia. i say it's not going to work for the sake of someone. we are

all in the military alliance together, and that is our combined power. the combined power is for 75 years where nato has been working. it has the 3rd war and that is, it's goal. nature was not for him and it's not working in europe in order to fight toward. nature was there so that a war would never have to be fought. and the difficulty the brain has is that it is not in nature or it was not enjoyable for the attack. and that, i think is the reason that the what, what put in was speculating on because it's not the nato, no one would help it. but look, we're even ating ukraine, even though we have no formal obligation to do so. and the, so the nato alliance is a preventative alliance is not supposed to fight a war, although it's fully capable of doing so. it's supposed to prevent

a war which it has done for many years. and this right now we have, we have to increase our capability to stop the russian war machine before the war is broader and to stop it in ukraine. well, yes, i mean, there isn't an idea. well, there wouldn't be a war, but just an idea. well, that wouldn't be the war that we already have in, in europe. you mentioned the president microns recently suggestion, but fronts could conceivably send troops to ukraine also on his own, but as part of a multi lateral deployment would like to and principal be prepared to join such a mission. this is a very sooner escalation, as you're talking about what my calls a suggestion. i think that the strength of this suggestion is it starts to create strategic ambiguity for russia and mccaul does have a point in nato. in democracies, we have all the time put down red lines. what we won't do, what we won't do, what we will do, and forgot forgetting about the fact that rush,

it looks at this and says, oh, well, we can count, they won't do this, they won't do that. they won't do the 3rd my cons, suggestion actually create strategic. i don't think you would need for russia a and sort of blurs the red lines that we have a drawn ourselves. so the point is not now to say what we will or what we won't do . what we must do with nature is increase our spending increase our defense interest rate a do all of this in a very visible and transparent manner. so the put in sees we are serious problem. i call serge to sound lies not to be cowardly. these are the moment was being approached in europe where it will be appropriate not to be a college. has nato being cowardly. have individual countries being cowardly. now, i would argue, no. nato has shown no indication of being cowardly. a nato has shown the opposite as the pressure comes up. nato upsets game. the only issue at hand is we

need to up our game quicker. that's all that's, that's, that's it stakes. that's all the discussion that we need to do. everything that we're doing, we simply need to do it quicker. i want to talk if i'm in the remaining time that we have about some of the responses your government has made inside last 3 a to the war. and ukraine, notably the decisions are phase of russian language is one of your countries, official languages in the media, and then education to check the loyalty of russian speaking minorities who account for almost 30 percent of your population. i wonder minutes to how this could have been anything but deeply devices in your country. while i have to correct some things that you're saying, there's simply not true. so russian has not been an official language of that country since we regained our independence. we have one official language that is locked in. we have a long standing a policy in our educational system to make sure that all the people living in last year. certainly all citizens learn our national language so that we can communicate

them and they have the equal opportunities in the job as and you locked in would have. so uh, any country making sure that its citizen speaks the national language. i think this is quite common in europe, and certainly we are no exception to that, but they would be thrown out to stay calm and speak it, you know, they were being thrown out if they know it again it, it, this is, this is simply not true we have among, among our citizens, we have a small, a minority of russian nationals, people who are not locked into have russian citizenship permanently residing lots here. and of those russian nationals, a portion of them, or people who used to have either permanent residency status in last year or even a less than passport. who gave that up some years ago for a russian passport, but not to live in russia, but to live in logic. and for these small subset of, of,

of russian citizens who live in latvia on a permanent basis, who used to have our citizenship or our permanent status. we ask them if you wish to continue to reside in lafayette as russian citizens. then please, at least for the minimum level, learn our language, and this is not an outline. just thing to ask. these are not, that has nothing to do with my know are these, these are foreign nationals who reside in laughter. and they are foreign nationals who gave up our status. our citizenship for russian citizenship last july, your own, the central statistical bureau showed the old groups or the polled said they asked it, you'd have laughed trans to the russian speaking population had changed for the worse . and the majority of russian speaking families now believe that fascism was increasing in the country. that was not the case at the start of the war. that's not quite the outcome you want. it is it? i'm, i don't know what data you're relying on. i'm the data that i was just introduced

by the it's back to the in the government. we were looking us is that as the word progresses? the proportion of not looking at what language people speak at home within the percentage of people supporting russia has been decreasing. i think it's around 6 or 7 percent. so that means 909394 percent actually do not support pressure regardless of what language the speaking a so there there is a rather common misconception about what people in life do you think or don't think there are attempts. this is a narrative that falsely comes from russia about all of the russians who are living in laughter. it's simply not the case. young people in our country all speak the national language. they are actually quite well integrated. there's, there are no, there are no, um, how should we say tensions on the street level? the never have been. and it's simply a question,

what russia is trying to convey to, to the world is that our country, in some sense, belongs to russia. and this is simply a false narrative given by an imperialistic power. and what we are saying is please come, please come and visit a speak to people, look around this as a fantastic country. we actually feel quite good and quite safe here. uh and uh, they, the attitude of the population towards russia's aggression in and ukraine is quite visible. russia just held a presidential election and of the russian citizens living in lexia. approximately 2 percent participated in the election. only 2 percent of russian citizens residing permanently in latvia voted in the russian presidential elections. i think that speaks book quotes of attitude of these people and these are not ethnic minorities . these are russian citizens residing here, or pressure on this conference where you have to leave it the thank you very much

of data being on complex. all right, thank you. love the

to the point. strong opinions, clear positions, international perspective, every shadowing of russian military leadership suggests pollutant is digging in for a long range and plenty to harness for the russian economy to do so. what does this mean for ukraine under on board mentioned losing ground in the northeast. join us this week on to the point to the point eastern in 30 minutes on d. w. the 3 young immigrants from zimbabwe. supportive family. because the

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musicians who list beneath the panel i'll just talk about the sounds of power and inspiring story about the volume music under the swastika. thoughts may 25th on d w. the . this is dw news, and these are top stories to said south africa has asked the top united nations court to help israel's operations. and rafa and southern gaza from south africa and accuses israel of stepping up what it calls a genocide israel wheelchair incentive case. and the 2nd day of hearing that the court in the hague on friday, we didn't trust the presidents of russia and china say their relationship has become stronger as tensions with the west increase. bottom improvement has been holding talks with she's in pain during

a state visit to china. the 2 leaders attended a concert envisioning. they also.