germans, west mall and retire license to put that into the hands of one of the worlds 2nd largest industry association is next year. on dw, the words people have to say that's why we listen. because every weekend on d, w, the to germany's economy is a struggling and one of its key industries. machine building is also facing

a summer time. germany turn it around, all vital pillows of the economy going to be facing long term problems coming in the future. well, trying to be to talk about that is called high skin from the vm, a industry association. thank you very much speaking to my call. how worried are you about the german economy at this time? well, i think if you look at the affected the facts, then we are where it's our industry um has been down and we will protect the last 2 by one percent. and our forecast for this year is under the minus 12 percent. so there's an uncomfortable situation to be in. however, we proceed this more of a site to go a phenomenon and not so much of a structural phenomenon for our industry. so we expect our business to pick up again in the 2nd half of the day. okay, but the economist succeed, cost for them says despite moderate recovery prospect,

we must not deceive ourselves. overall, production figures have been slowing, showing a worrying downward trend for g is, is the, an existing sho, threats to companies in the machine building industry which you represent. i think the interesting structural point is that the success of government industry has a, has some pillars which are not really holding anymore. you know, very well that supply from of t plus side resources from russia was one of those pillars. an ever growing chinese market for joe, i'm an engineer at the products, was one of those pillars. and also your pain security being safe guard it by the us . and a lot of us funding was another one of these pillars. so we see a structural changes in the global framework and that means for trimming industry, we have to, we think if you're having very energy intensive manufacturing base and dry many then you have to, we think, especially in not just tactical. okay. um,

i want to come to the list of proposals that you've made earlier this week to release the statement in order to help the machine industry in germany. and now your list of proposals include a reduction of bureaucracy, lower taxes, changing accounting methods. we can call it to encourage companies to invest in human shapes, extending weekly, working hours, and pushing back the pension will age and infrastructure investment that is your coal to government. i is just specifically the government to implement these things . but chancellor schultz has accused certain sectors of the industry of yum of y. yeah. and so it shouldn't, you rather be focusing on what your industry can do most self reflect in the window, instruct you do, rather than this long laundry list of things that you hope the government will give you want to. so yeah, yeah, that's a very good question. thank you for this one. you know, if you look at this long laundry list, yes, it's something we ask from from,

from the public sect of, from the, from the government. but just also, i'm in the business program for our sales. you know, if there was something which is really slowing a drum, an industry down its comfort zone, you know, we live in a conference on the political 5 as well as society as a whole. we live in a very wealthy society. we live in a very safe society for whatever reason, germans feel that ukraine is far away and, and also is where they got a far away and everybody remains in this conference on. and then we talk about weekly working hours, you know, in our industry we have 35 and we keep working out. it's a joke. you know, even the industries in germany and nobody was even thinking about 75 units on the teacher work for the also that's what the counselors don't think. so the union that you must have study 2 hours, you know, and, and that's for me, one of those leading examples. i mean, they'd be live in a conference on and i think what, but also the dentist society people living in germany has to learn is that the wind is cold and strong all day. and we are in

a global competition. we have to adapt that to that competition, and that means that we have to move out of our comfort zone. and it's true for the political arena, but it's also true for size side, for society itself and for the companies. okay, but the, there's a practical issue with convincing workings councils or unions or bypassing them in some way, going to government, getting them to change them or that is a huge hurdle to get over. yes. yes. uh, but you know, um, if you want to change things, you have to start somewhere and also be talking about another example, reckoning time over over your life spans and also we keep working time is it is a big issue. it will take a long time to change it, but we have to start somewhere and we are working on it. the same is true for corporate texts, you know, corporate tax rates in germany, extremely high, one of the highest in the world. and that's one of those feedback conditions, you know, if, if you really want to ignite of the economy and texas a key driver and the very poor that. so do we see politicians right now? we have the courage to tell people at this moment in time,

you know what to do with our corporate tax rates. that's a very courageous step to do. and i don't see anyone doing that. however, you have to start somewhere to argue and to convince people. and let's see a one year down the road. we have an election a little over a year down the road. we have an election germany. let's see what the outcome is. and then you might have to ride setting and that's what we have to prepare today. so that maybe we get into a consolation, what changes happen in the way? it does sound like more of the same complacency that you're complaining about in the sense that this is for industry to pressurize the common show to do that in the active sense. but otherwise, to wait until the government, so keep, keep them under pressure, you know, you're talking about to keep mentioning it. but what can the industry itself do in order to be more competitive with, let's say china, it's interesting that you are insisting on, on the issue and, and i like that because, um,

one of those aspects of being in the conference on is that also drive ins individuals as well as a corporate world and have a trend to, to rely on the public sector. and to think that both by the way that both intensified and throughout the career on the crisis. because then governments and, and public sector really had to intervene to manage the prices and kind of piece that, hey, well, this is cool. you know, if i have a problem of the political arena, the government who ever and takes care and that has an effect that is still see today. so i'm also kind of trying to make a wake up call also to the corporate world. if, if, if to see is rough, don't ask the government and to slow it down, but do your own job properly. but nevertheless, if you walk around here the whole is that kind of a mess it, it's a super cool technology show and i think it's, it's proving that engineer and in germany is this still a super cool brand. you will see solutions here that are really looking forward.

and the idea to say there is nothing nicer in the us knowing china that can pass to this what you see here, technology, why? so companies are facing the future, the coming for this product, okay, when it comes to china, let's say, is trying to more of a threat or more of the product as well. um, china has been what i call a tons market. uh, for decades, i'll say the company is either way present if i'm not working for the association. uh have you had drawn ex, i'm from unit we we, we have a lot of operations in china is one of our most important markets. and that has turn around, i would consider china today to be at risk market and lots of times the market is the major reason being, by the way, not so much the geopolitical effect, but also the current chinese administration nationalizing the industry. and we have seen parts of our industry, constructive hip and is a good example. but international supplies are almost down to 0 because china one's

chinese equipment in china. so, what should be done about that? what does the job you need to do? what does the you need to do? because of course, the worry is if the you, if job is too harsh and to china. yeah, and that's going to take away a lot of opportunities of business have to that says in europe have to sell into china. i think, you know, and in this context you is kind of caught between a rock and a hard place on the west side of the ones that you have to us of being a, getting really tough on china. independent, was abiding. this in control attempting to control both a tough on china and, and on the other hand, we have so much business going on for german corporations in china. and we also have supply chains coming from china, which i super important. so did you has to find his own role and in its own sales confidence in dealing with china on the level playing field. and what does that look like? specifically the cause of cost me e was talked about level playing field with funding for a long time. yeah,

a nevertheless, we've been talking about it, but we've been eve a on china and, and i think it will start to extend. we still are, if you look at chinese legislation, cyber security law, into espionage law. these are laws that explicitly prevent for businesses of doing business in china, that's fuel efficiency, much stronger, more self confident reaction by the you and we have to call to effect so your story to branch off the german industry. so it's called of small to medium sized businesses, often family owned businesses with strong but not necessarily a known as capitalization. and they've been lagging on digitalization that's been struggles with succession plans or is germany's biggest economic strings, the so called middle spend also a significant weak point. you know, i don't think so. if you look at the ability to adapt to changing frameworks,

then absolutely convinced and, and all member companies do have a track record in that that small and medium sized family businesses are faster and more willing to adapt to changing frame, booked, and large corporations. the we have 3600 member companies. the average size is $2250.00 employees only. and 90 percent of these companies are family owned, to have an export rate of 80 percent in everidge. so you have to imagine a small company, $200.00 people sitting somewhere in the middle of nowhere, being a family owned to export 8 percent of the super nice mitch technology. and these people are really flexible. they cannot that they're a fast uh, agent. okay, so they can adapt fos, but can they get the investment money that they might need to? i mean we talked about a i throughout the messa, it's a huge deal course has been for a while, but now we have generativity as well. all of this kind of complex technology which has its own specialize needs, implementation requires investment, do mutual fund companies as individuals,

have the ability to invest at the level that they need in order to be able to efficiently effectively use the opportunity to take advantage of the opportunities, not just with a i, but on the new and emerging technologies. i, 1st of all, yes, we have to state the level of investment in germany has been going down for 4 years and does not enough investment in germany itself. at this moment in time, and this is also what the us from the drum and government and from politics to improve the frame grow for investments in january. so that's number one in the general. it's independent from a i. if you look at a i or as a, let's say, digital technologies and you look around here and 100 of them. and again, i think you'll see a lot of examples where this technology is applied by large corporations, as well as by small and medium sized businesses. you have to consider, we are to a 100 percent in the be to be in the business to business. you'll be on not on the consumer side. and many of these business models. when you talk about a i, there's

a very popular that people talked about. hypoth scanning business model on the consumer side, this is not going to do. so the also the capital requirement to go into a i into apply a i, as in an engineer between products is totally different from the consumer side. but why until now? has this industry in fact, from an industry in general, let's be honest, not just machine building, but most mostly why is it fail to prepare for the future? i wouldn't up to, i would not agree a to this assumption. we know that digitalization of the big issue, we've seen china coming down the road for a long distance ation is a big issue in the public space. you know, if you look at a public administration in germany, yes, we a week on a digitization. this is not true for other countries though. if you're looking to scandinavia, if you look into the bathtub state, you have leading examples on how to apply a i in our to the how to apply big data models in public administration. so germany is not to hold of euro this just the significant part of europe and in the public space. yes, we a week,

i would not say that driving the german industry and privately owned the industry is behind and new technologies. how confident about the future for german industry? yes. ok. kind of high school. thank you very much for speaking to me. thank you. of the vibrant habitat ended the listening place of long in the mediterranean sea, its waters connect people of many cultures. how old is ice in sicily? nfl mazda visits mount aetna, and learns the dramatic history of the island next. on dw, the

w. this is any off it is available. and it has never been since the submitted to any and was once a major crossroads at the heart of the ancient today, it has become a barrier separating europe from africa. is there anything less of a past one share and what do today's distinct cultures have in common? journalist xena las rog and joe far up to korean, travel the coast of the mediterranean in search of answers. you see yourself as a to be in june and responsibilities. how can you say

a good.