a tendency to let him do that to us. the evidence in this case is frankly even stronger than that that we had against the nazis at nuremberg. and these crimes continued in the fast of a 2 part series out to 0 photos, powerful cases of little crimes against civilians allegedly killed by the syrian government. with photographic evidence from the seas of files, the lost souls of syria on al jazeera. setting the stage for the us presidential election, donald trump accepts the challenge to face off against presidential invited into tv, debate spots. will they actually take place and what difference could they make and the race to the white house? this is inside story, the

hello and welcome to the program. i'm elizabeth put on them breaking tradition in several ways. us present job item has challenges pre to assess that to, to televised debates ahead of the elections in november. and donald trump was quick to accept the invitation, saying he would debase, has rival any time any day. biden has deviated from the conventional timing style and organizes the dates for the spine match. so early that need the candidates would have so many accepted the parties nomination and they will be no life audience. the 2 men are already exchanging insults on social media, building off an appetite for poll watches. so one of the key issues to the count for if and when they face off and how important to these debates. we've put those and other questions to august to the moment that 1st this report for an image and come back in the blue corner. the sound shop was 2 debates, meaning $0.20 that he had showed up for debates. now he's acting like he wants to debate me again or make my day pass all even do

a twice plus pick the day style. i hear you free on wednesdays, and in the red corner trump's responses. it is my great honor to accept the cnn debate against cricket, joe biden, the worst president in the history of the united states, and a crude threat to democracy on june 27th. likewise, i accept the a b. c. news debate against cricket, joe, on september 10th. a debate being agreed this sunday is unusual. since voting for the next president of the united states traditionally begins in mid september boyd and is expected to attack trumps from boy in rhetoric. well, trump is likely to um, provide concerns about the only things age the rules of engagement yet to be confirmed. maria was a man, boyd and want strict rules over interruptions, no live audience. there was a very well trunk once a very large venue for excitement purposes. presidents i talked,

brought the debate like you put in millions of viewers in the united states 32nd, despite reports of some vote to dissatisfaction with the choice of candidates. i'm pretty nervous. honestly, i feel like the outcome is pretty chaotic. like it's very like a pressure cooker kind of feeling. it's very polarizing. and honestly i feel like our options are sparse to have our 2 main candidates who they are. i guess it's kind of a fox. as a rule of scenario, trump is facing a criminal charges. some are related to so who hush money paid to so and it's an out of film still ahead of the 2016 election who claimed she had an affair with him . others before his attempt to overturn the 2020 presidential election result of barton's presidency, has been defined by high inflation, big spending bills for industrial policies, bank rolling ukraine,

and it's well with russia. and most recently, his support is route over its world. goza, despite objections from traditional and potential democratic voters, post with the candidates, roughly neck and neck, with many voters considering who is most likely to improve the economy, which is the cost of living, and bring it back, change up to say, it may not be a case of who was better or more popular, but who was the least worst option image and came back out to 0 for inside story. the net spring and i guess in washington dc is elaine k, mock senior fellow at the brookings institution and the also of primary politics in new york journalist. brian's delta is specializes in cover in the us media. i'm is the author of several books including network of lives and also in dc, steve him and is one of america's chief national correspondents and has his own

books coming out behind the white house cushion is an account of his time as b. o a white house bureau chief, a very warm welcome to all of you, mister stells. i'll start with you in new york. and what is the importance or relevance of a presidential debate in an error of increasing pauses on divides how many mines are they left to be made up? very few, but it is important to have debates for the following reasons. there's nothing normal about this election. it's a rematch, it's a grudge match it's donald trump, promising retribution and binding promising to embarrass trump on the world stage. there's nothing normal about the circumstances, but the debate actually is pretty normal by american standards. americans expect to see presidential debates every 4 years. so this is going to bring a sense of normality, some standards, some political laws of gravity reapplied to this unusual election season and is going to be a transfer americans who have not tuned in who are not paying attention to actually

size up the candidates. it is very easy and this fragment of media world to ignore the political debate altogether, to tune out altogether. and this debate will be an opportunity, at least for voters to, to an end for the 1st time. as you said, there are many things that are not normal, certainly unusual about this presidential election and also about this presidential debate. mr. hammond, why is the debate being held even before either by the no trump of formerly nominated as beth policies, candidates for the election? a yes, this will probably be the earliest debate ever in the presidential election cycle. well, donald trump is never hesitant, or at least acts like he's never hesitated to uh, to get in front of a television camera or a crowd all, but we won't have a crowd in the studio for these 2 debates from what we've learned. uh and for the buy them campaign, they're looking at to recent polls and anything they can do to sort of showed jo

biden's success story and him acting presidential. these will be donald trump's antics that he usually displays on the debate stage. they're hoping to get an early boost of a for the campaign is brian said, you know, there's a whole lot of people who are undecided about joe biden or donald trump. what this election is really going to be about in the winter is presumably going to be determined by who can really rally the base. so this is an early opportunity to try to rally the basis for the respective campaigns. yeah, and i do want to talk about, you know, what kind of issues they going to focus on to rally their base to change the minds of thing was, is that miss k mock, if i can come to you with the same point about, you know, donald trump and president bite, and this re match, i was reading, you know, a recent poll shows that the majority of americans don't want either donald trump, for president biden to run again in this election. so what is the fact that,

you know, they are the republicans and democrats nominee in a holding this debate even before the nominated. what does that say about the 2 major parties, concern for folks just sentiment as well. it says that both major parties have deep wells of support for their nominees, otherwise somebody else would have come along and challenge them successfully. it didn't happen in either party. i think the way to look at this is that there is, there are very many undecided voters, but there are a lot of people that the pollsters are calling double haters, double haters, or people who really dislike bite and, and really dislike trump. and part of what they are going to be looking at, i think, is how vigorous each of these candidates is. we started this election year with a lot of worry about how buys and was too old for the job. increasingly given trump's sort of a radical behavior on the stump and in his court room,

people are now beginning to wonder if he too, is too old and too discombobulated to be president. so i think the, the debates will show the capacity of each of these men. both of them are older than anybody. we've had brand name ever. yeah. yeah. i sell to it if i can come, she lives, you know, some of the possible reasons why this debase is being held so early. you know, mr. him and touched on this, but i want to ask, you know, why do you think the, by the end and ministration wants to hold this debate so early in june? doesn't have anything to do with, you know, early versioning has really increased over the past few decades. democrats think they do better in early voicing. it was one of the aspects of american politics that i feel is broke in that many americans feels broken or the length of the share length. the volume of these elections, primaries go on for so many months. the general election goes on for the better

part of a year. it feels like we live in a country where the election never ends. and then think about that as soon as joe joe biden was inaugurated, donald trump was back out there running for president again. so with that in mind earlier debates make sense if we're gonna have this environment where primary is the one for months in general, actually is gone for months that it makes sense to have debates early or not wait until the very last in, in, when people have already started to cast their ballots. so i'm, this is actually an improvement. and i think the binding campaign you know, is in some ways boxed in by trump, who for months has been out there saying i'll debate by them anywhere anytime anyhow. find essentially called his bluff and said okay, i'll do it twice once in june. once is a timber, i'll see you there. and that were to me these, there were the some behind the scenes negotiations that all led up to this. and now it's a huge number. one is a huge cooper, cnn, my former employer and abc to when these debates. number 2, it's a huge responsibility for cnn and for a b, c. what questions are asked,

how the debates are framed? public candidates are managed because let's be honest, donald trump is going to get up there. he's going to scream, he's going to call, i'm a liar. constantly. he's going to interrupt. it's going to be a very chaotic debate and it's going to be hard for these networks to manage a steam. do you think that given some of the conditions that divided administration has set on these debates that they can be as k austic, as i've seen previous debates involved in donald trump because one of the conditions that the bottom administration has off full. and presumably, donald trump is a great to the debates, are going to go ahead, is that mike's that will automatically turn off once to speak is a lot of time is up. these ground rules certainly seem to favor bite and rather than trump, and we're also making the assumption that these debates are actually going to happen here in washington. there is some skepticism about that that perhaps donald trump, by and by hours before the debate may say,

may allege that the biden's been fed the questions or the format as rigged or something else. and actually back out of this. but if, but why, why would he back, how all that off to, why would he back out of it off to asking for it for so long to claim uh that, uh, it's reg, just like he claimed uh falsely that the last election was written did whatever it takes to bring attention on him is what donald trump uh, desires. uh, you know, we, i saw that during the 4 years of covering him in, in the white house. and the we'll also see no matter what the ground rules or are that donald trump, well, we'll try to violate him for him. for him. he must be center stage there's, there's no doubt about that. and i expect that's what we'll see. and that is something that we'll riley has base and we'll have both campaigns if these debates happen after it saying, hey, look, this shows you exactly why you should not vote for that other crazy old man. and i

want to talk about another very interesting ground rules that donald trump, again, has agreed to. the joe biden said that he doesn't want an audience. and we will know that donald trump feeds off an audience. i was watching one late night. who's saying that getting trumps who agree to a debate without an audience is like getting a vampire to agree to a fight on a beach at noon during a goldlick festivals. why would trump, why would trump agree to this? i think trump was sort of boxed in by his own rhetoric. he'd been running around the country for so many months, saying joe biden is afraid to debate me. i could beat joe biden in debate. i mean, his rhetoric is really his usual outlandish stuff. and he got fox then he said, you know, okay, all the bass you any time? anywhere. and then when, but this condition on him, i think he sort of had to say yes, but i, i agree with, i think steve,

who just spoke that i'm not sure this will happen. okay, i'm not sure this will happen because there's an analogy here between donald trump in his court room and donald trump and debate in the court room. what we've seen time and time again is donald trump is on the able to control himself. he's, he's racking up science every day by it, by threatening people, the judges, the jury, the, the people related to them. and he can't, he, he doesn't have any self control. and sometimes that hurts it. sometimes the, his people love it, it's cetera. sometimes. yeah. funny. so it's, it works, but a lot of times he has no self control and you know, i can see him at the last minutes looking up some excuse to back out of this. have been so many things with donald trump. i mean, just off the top of my head, i'm thinking of, you know, the talks that we use to take place, but the take end up taking place at the north korean leader that was so on. again

off again. brian, why do you think the job i'm dividing administration is bypassing the presidential debate commission, which has organized these debates since 1918 right there was, there was criticism of abided administration that it has sidelined a number of institutions that it doesn't degree, but yes, it is your right, and in some ways there was actually, strangely, some bipartisan agreement about sideline in the commission because some prominent republicans, including those tied to trump, had been criticizing the commission, suggesting they wanted to do it a different way. and then the binding campaign was much more firm insane. we reject the commission's plan. we're going to go a different direction. why i think there, there's a couple of reasons. one, the commission has disappointed campaigns. a couple really dramatic times. recently, a, i think about 2020 donald trump gets on stage with biden, from secretly, has cobit is very sick. the debate was a total mass. it was

a total train wreck. the moderator was not able to control trump. uh the commission was embarrassed and rightly so. so i think in some ways the commission was losing control losing steam opposite before this moment. and here's what the bottom campaign said. there was notable. they said, we don't think there should be an audience. we don't think this would be a spectacle and we don't want to wait until the fall. and i think those are all legitimate reasons to break from the commission. but it is a yet another example of the us breaking from the norms that have, you know, kind of govern to these election cycles for decades. okay. steve, assuming that these debates will go ahead, what do you think the issues, but either candidate will try to focus on as well. most certainly, donald trump is going to go after joe biden on the issue of the middle east. and joe biden is the sitting president, so there is

a valid criticism depending on what side of the political spectrum or that issue that you're on. that that will be a very easy one to throw at donald trump because he can say, you know, if i were president, this war would have been, you know, over and 5 minutes. the same thing he said about if he gets to be president again about the ukraine and russia also, i think that will see of the moderators trying to pin donald trump down on the issue of abortion because he's trying to have it both ways on that issue. and that's a, that will be a strength of for joe biden, but there is some risk to president biden because he is the sitting president. and he has to take responsibility for all the things that are perceived as going wrong . not only in the united states, a body in the entire world of elaine universe, at the end of last year, about how biden's unpopularity doesn't necessarily mean that voters won't vote for democrats. you know, especially in mid to elections. but do you think that's true in

a federal election and, you know, steve was talking about how donald trump is expected to will be expected to press the button on the middle east on israel's war on gaza. do you think that, you know, that's changed at least with some groups that you know what we're seeing for by the end. so even though rather working for the democrats, even if they don't agree with bite and do think that's changed as the month since, as well as one, gaza has begun. i don't think it's changed substantially. i think there are pieces the democratic party that's very worried about what's going on and gaza, but it wants to buy and campaign on earth begins to put ads out about what trauma trumps attitude towards the middle east is trumps. close this with the net and yahoo. well many people in the united states are very angry at don't think has been a good leader and a good allied and all of this. um, once,

once the binding campaign puts trunk and his positions, many of which are even more extreme, then biden's. i think that's going to go away as an issue. i also think that we've had a phenomenon ever since 2000 when she's at 2020 rather where by and has had very low popularity. lots of people worried about them. they got lot of complaints about them. and then when push comes to shove, the democrats, when so i think that's going to happen this time, this time as well. i think i think it's a visa. yeah. yeah. be so you can have using that can happen on the national level because of the contrast, steve, let me talk to you about brian. rather, let me come to you now about reproductive rights and elaine. i know you've written about this as well and just how much it can push versus towards democrats. as voice has perceived a woman's rights to choose as being on the ballot,

then democrats have done well in those elections. how do you see that playing out and these a possible debates assessing the, the election campaign i, i, i sometimes hesitate to boil something down to the assembly as i'm about to do. okay. so with that, cause we are, i think what i'm about to say is the reality of the campaign. i think it's as simple as the following. any day that america is talking about reproductive rights, about abortion access binding. this went in and any day america is talking about the border or crime, trump is winning. so at the end of this election, we can tally up the number of days where most of the news coverage is about reproductive rights versus the number of days that most of the news coverage is about a border. and we will probably know the winter of the election as a result. now, here's the thing buying and the democrats have so much money to spend on ads on tv ads, on marketing, on messaging, on the ground game. so they're going to be able to deploy

a tremendous array of resources to raise the salience of the reproductive rights question to make it a top front and center issue this summer and fall. that's what at least what i expect to happen. and one of the reasons why i tend to agree with the land that a bite and despite is on popularity, is the make a more america boring, keep america boring candidate. and that's not what trauma says, right? trump promises a pretty radical change to the united states. i think most americans are burned out by politics. they're exhausted, they don't want to hear about it. and that in some ways, actually a banner just by weber's buying stave, do you see those issues, you know, reproductive rights and what's happening at the border as 2 of the most important issues in this election campaign. you know, what about the economy and the fact that regardless of the fact that the american economy is doing well is growing, americans don't credit that to the bite and administration. and many americans don't feel that they have benefiting from that growth or exactly the macro economic

indicators. all a very good. but when you talk to people about what they're paying at the grocery store for eggs and brad, and at the federal ponds for gasoline, it's a different story. and that is most certainly something that trump is going to attack biden. and if we have all of these debates, because that will resonate with the voters, not only republicans for democrats as well. and of course, you know, we can talk with economists about, well, how much can you really blame a president for, for what's happening with the, with the price of bags of a lot of these economic indicators lag. and so you can actually sometimes blame the previous president more than the current president, but that sort of nuance is going to be lost on the voters. and you know, we usually say it is pocket book issues that motivate people to do, to go to the polls and choose who they choose. and so come november or when we have

early voting, start of the price that people are paying for gasoline is going to be a significant factor and maybe israel hamas less. so abortion is a brian pointed out, a very emotional issue and the bite in ministration and democrats seem to have the upper hand on that because independence, even a lot of republicans don't like the restrictions that are on place now. and a number of states. and again, as i said before, donald trump is going to have to provide some answers. i think also what significant to point out these debates are going to be moderated and hosted by uh to uh, networks a cable net uh cnn and cable network and abc which is more main stream fox news or any other right wing channel uh does not have the opportunity yet to uh, host a debate and jo biden's campaign is saying it's going to be these 2 and that's going to be at elaine the 1st the base has taken place, but yeah,

what brian go ahead. i just like it's notable that in an era of independent media, new media models, youtube and sub stack and tick tock and all the rest. all these really valuable this was in the media landscape and yet who wins the debates for the us presents election? it's these old school old buying brands again cnn. i used to be there 40 years old abc, it's been around since the birth of television. it's these old school media brands that are still trusted by a large number of people. the one these debates. and i think it's important because the set about fox news be cut out of this process because right now pro trump media has no will at all in the database. and of course, donald trump has said that he wants a debate on fox news. the vitamin ministration hasn't agreed to that. we're coming to the end of our discussion. so i want to just touch once again on why this debate, why these debates are important. and the 1st base has taken place in georgia, which is a crucial background state. donald trump is up in 5 of those bathroom ground states . do these debates? do think, have the power, how much power do they have to push to persuade people to shape people's minds?

it's that's hard to say, but put it this way in any election where it is so close, close in the battleground, states close nationally, etc, in any election like that, everything matters. and so we're talking about the state of georgia where by one at, by 11000 boat. so obviously this debate taking place in georgia could be increase incredibly important to either buy nor trump, arizona, where it was one by 10000 votes. so these are very, very narrow margins were seen. and i think that the debate could, in fact be instrumental in one of these places and perhaps in the whole election. and brian, what do you think that is of the most important things that we need to look out for? and these debates to look the country,

the united states more fragmented than ever. it's easier than ever to mess them. tune out and not watch this stuff. so these debates will not reach as high and audience as, let's say, bush v gore in 2000. that said they are some of the most important opportunities because they're a chance for people to pay attention. so what should we watch for? number one does from try to back out. number 2 is by unable to perform the ways age, say a not show is age of dramatic fashion. number 3 is trump able to remain somewhat tethered with the truth, or is it going to be a total stream of nonsense and lies a number for? well, the moderators fact check and debunk some of the craziness that we hear on stage. that's a very tall order for the responsibility for the audience deserves and just save. lastly, what do you think of the most important things to watch out for, and these debates as well. i think how these candidates look physically, these will be the largest audience, is a television audiences that these candidates so will be seen by. and

a lot of the republican base believes that joe biden is seen iowa in coherent. so if he's coherent and vertical, as he was during his state of the union address exceeding expectations, vibes of victory for joe biden. and for donald trump, if he's able to get his barbs in and try to intimidate a joe biden, ah, that will be seen by his base as a victory and a reason to go out and vote for donald trump. those seem like very low vas, but there we have it. the contenders for the us presidential election, assign to, to own of, i guess elaine came out in washington dc, brian's delta in new york and steve, him and also in washington dc. and thank you to for watching, you can see the program again any time by visiting our website onto 0 dot com. i prefer the discussion to go to our facebook page. that's facebook dot com, forward slash a inside story. you can also join the conversation on x. a handle is at

a inside story from me, elizabeth put on him the whole team here. bye for now. the if you're watching this prerecorded report then al jazeera has been banned in the territory, all is, well, we'll just stream to be any stray me when my country is closing down inspection towards the networks only because what additions thinking here, this decision puts other networks where it came in the occupied was time for inside israel proffer also independent journalist would be targeted we, i thought just we shouldn't be aware of that as a badge of honor to be banned. my government that stands indicted for genocide at the international court of justice. unique, effective denial is lisles on 6 of the people share the history of the genocide

without any research on heard voices, why is it the doctors don't get to have a site? and then if this is a medical workforce has been so and about age for the british government for such a little time, the stream one now to 0. a lot of the stories that we cover a highly complex. so it's very important that we make them as understandable as we can, as always is 0 correspondence. that's what we strive to do. the interrogate the narrative. there's no question about the united states as

effectively complicit the genocide challenge the rhetoric. yeah. think that correct, but so is the international community upfront, only without the hello, i'm sorry i'm and was in doha. just a quick look at the main stories the following. now he is ready, defense minister you, i've got an as announced additional ground forces being deployed to garza, southern city of rough or the intensified operation. comes israel's top allies of warning against a full scale offensive that had been heavy caches on the outskirts of the city between his riley troops of palestinian fighters. the united nations is saying, 600000 palestinians have fled the south in the last 10 days. meanwhile in northern gauze it is ready for us as a pushing deed for.